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Iraq-What now?

NWO Sentryman

Proud NWO Gatekeeper
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
6,994
now with Obama in office, the amount of soldiers has been decreasing.

But the question is, what now with Iraq?

Staying there until there is a stability which may never come?

replacing us soldiers with UN peacekeepers, which would lead to Bosnia x10?

immediate withdrawal with the middle east becoming even worse?
 
What now? easy, exactly what the Iraqi people want, they want US soldiers to stay? they stay when the people in the US agree with it.
The Iraqis want UN Peacekeepers? give em UN Peacekeepers.
the Iraqis want your tropps withdrawing? go home.

The Iraqis are old enough to manage their live themself.
 
Given that we had no business being there in the first place, given that we can't afford to be there, and given that the Iraqis want us out of their lives, the sooner we have our people out of there, the better.

Whatever the outcome, I am sure it will be worse for our intervention.

Continuing to intervene just gives credence to al Qaeda's main complaint against us.
 
Given that we had no business being there in the first place, given that we can't afford to be there, and given that the Iraqis want us out of their lives, the sooner we have our people out of there, the better.

Whatever the outcome, I am sure it will be worse for our intervention.

Continuing to intervene just gives credence to al Qaeda's main complaint against us.

but i think we can agree that a baathist victory would be the worst case scenario.

UN Peacekeepers would make Bosnia and rwanda seem like successful missions by comparison.
 
Since the US now has a foothold in region (presumably including military bases, intelligence gathering facilities, economic flows, etc), it's hard for me to see ever giving that portion up. Pulling troops out of the cities, and even out of the countryside, yes. But the rest, I suspect is there to stay.
 
Since the US now has a foothold in region (presumably including military bases, intelligence gathering facilities, economic flows, etc), it's hard for me to see ever giving that portion up.
We can't keep those things if the sovereign nation of Iraq wants us out.

I guess that's something we should've thought about before building permanent bases and so on there.
 
What business was it ever of ours?

Those Baathists were sitting on the world's oil reserves, were trying to acquire WMDs, had connections with terrorists in Palestine and had shown time and time again that they had no desire to help their own people and had no hesitation to attack neighboring countries.

No, not our business, right... :rolleyes:
 
We can't keep those things if the sovereign nation of Iraq wants us out.

I guess that's something we should've thought about before building permanent bases and so on there.

I suspect we did. I don't think the Iraq government will be able to let them leave, mostly because these facilities probably give quite a boost to the economy.

I agree if the government wants us out, and makes that clear to the world, we'd be hard pressed to stay. But, I also suspect their government will see the benefits to Iraq (or at least to those in power in Iraq) of staying, and the detriment to Iraq (or at least to those in power in Iraq) of leaving. And will make their arguments, and give their support, along their understanding there.
 
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Ha, pulling out of the cities. Air status pending I am taking a trip into Baghdad tomorrow.

I need to be careful how I say this but I think it's out there anyway but there has been a slight uptick in activity. The past week we've been on media blackout because of coalition casualties and I don't think all of it's being reported. I lost a good friend of mine a few weeks ago and he still hasn't appeared on any official count. Random attacks against the citizenry are also at a huge uptick. Pardalis, I don't know how much time you've spent in theater but the situation is not all that rosy but I agree, things have improved. Relatively.

The Iraqi government has stated that the pullout will be permanent and no fresh amount of violence will cause us to return to our former duties. I am skeptical but hopeful about the Iraqi Army and Iraqi Police ability to secure their own country. Democracy... We'll see how that works.

Most Iraqi's I have meet really want us to stay. On our old FOB there was this one big fat old lady we all called Jabba the Hut. She would always let us use her roof for night OPs. She would make us tea and give us bread and anything we wanted really. When we told her we were leaving she was in tears. She said the Iraqi Police and Army is corrupt and incompetent and little more than a group of well paid thugs. That seems to be the common sentiment from most of the folks I talk too even those in the Iraq Army which I work with daily.

Granted, that's all anecdotal but it appears to be the uniform opinion.

I could definitely see our bigger FOBs turned into permanent camps not unlike Yongsan in Korea or Heidelberg Germany. I still can't quite picture myself hitting the town in Taji the way I would do in Seoul but I guess Seoul was once hell on Earth as well.
 
Since the US now has a foothold in region (presumably including military bases, intelligence gathering facilities, economic flows, etc), it's hard for me to see ever giving that portion up. Pulling troops out of the cities, and even out of the countryside, yes. But the rest, I suspect is there to stay.


Fully agree. From the beginning, the U.S. has proclaimed there will be no permanent military bases in Iraq, period. I suppose Congress could get around that by saying we want an 'enduring presence' there until it's 100% stable, and will review and re-authorize funding for it every few years or whatever, so technically it isn't permanent. Not saying that's what will happen, just highlighting that there are probably ways to justify maintaining bases with no concrete plan for closure, and still call it non-permanent. Call me cynical.

But if all of the bases aren't closed with the concomitant troop withdrawals, I'd see it as reneging on a promise. Apparently there are some military leaders and analysts who would disregard that commitment and would indeed like to root forces in Iraq, since we've invested so much there and it's pre-assembled. If the U.S. wants to restore its lost credibility in the world, and Middle East in particular, I think this is very important commitment to follow through on.
 
Most Iraqi's I have meet really want us to stay. On our old FOB there was this one big fat old lady we all called Jabba the Hut. She would always let us use her roof for night OPs. She would make us tea and give us bread and anything we wanted really. When we told her we were leaving she was in tears. She said the Iraqi Police and Army is corrupt and incompetent and little more than a group of well paid thugs. That seems to be the common sentiment from most of the folks I talk too even those in the Iraq Army which I work with daily.

Granted, that's all anecdotal but it appears to be the uniform opinion.

While anecdotes might not equal hard data, what you describe is in fact a trend that's been coming from most who have talked with individuals there in Iraq. I'll attempt to offer an interpretation of what this means in a generalized cultural context, and you can let me know if it sounds even remotely applicable based on your own experiences with folks in the towns and cities there.

On the whole, most of the people you're going to run into as far as the civilian population in Iraq aren't going to want the US military to leave. Compared to the Iraqi forces, both police and military, they generally feel safer with the US forces around. You mentioned the accusations of corruption already, and even describing it as corruption is putting it lightly as far as I'm aware-- I've heard local police and politicians described as sanctioned sectarian fighters and thugs wearing suits (though not those exact words). The average people not only have no reason to trust them, but also have every reason to believe that they aren't going to be appreciably different from the previous government opportunists. But the main reason they want the US military to stay is because they prefer to not get shot or blown up, and can't afford to go into Jordan or elsewhere like many others have. And on the other side of that, they're not really all that interested in a US-style government, especially not if the US is the one telling the government what to do. What they feel isn't resentment at the US government, but what the people there most want is to be left alone by outside forces, not to make a politicized statement that some party in another country can use to claim is in support of their positions. Granted, the environment there in many neighborhoods would be considered *%&#-ed up by American standards, but environment aside they just want similar things that people in the States want-- clean water, a way to make a buck, food for their families, fewer bullet holes in their walls... the basics. They want simple stuff like basic safety on the streets, the ability to hold a job, and the staples of what could be considered modern living. For the most part, they don't care if it's the US military or their own military and police providing that protection for them to try to have it, so the default is that they prefer the US military they know has the might as opposed to the local police and military who have so far seemed no better than the militias from three years ago.

How's that in your opinion, foxholeatheist? It's a bit more descriptive than what you said, but since your words were so similar to other accounts I've heard I added them together.
 
That's pretty close but I would also like to add that the Iraqi Army seems pretty keen to handle the security all by themselves.

I have very little faith in their abilities to do so because so often they are in fact the very secretarian fighters that the folks don't want in their 'hoods. That the opinion that I hear most often from the average Iraqi. The Awakening Councils (or SOI, whichever you prefer) are mostly composed of turncoat insurgents. My father was a computer security analysis at Al-Taqqdium airfield and an Iraqi Soldier detonated a suicide vest in the middle of the chow hall killing about a dozen guys. I just don't trust them as far as I can throw them and when we train them you better believe that we're in full battle rattle.

But a large part of sees vast improvements in Iraq. The roads are much clearer now then they used to be in some areas (some have gotten far worse) and though we see less IED's they tend to be of higher quality and we have higher casualties. It's not the wild west that it was in 2004-2007 and that's a good thing but we have so many restrictions on engagement that sometimes we seem effectively neutered. The people throw rocks at us a lot less than they used to and more folks are comfortable letting us into their homes (not that it was ever a problem, I've shoulder checked my way in a few homes) willingly and we'll find somewhere else if they don't.

It's high time we left. I don't know what our purpose was here and the current drawdown and handover is a very respectable way of pulling us out so I am happy with that. The units that are deploying to Iraq now are here to train and manage the country, not to patrol in it. In fact some American convoys have been turned around by ISF. And we have to listen to them no less.

All positive signs and things have gotten better. I'm looking forward to the last 6 months of my tour as boring and pointless. Nothing would be more fitting to the US Army.
 
Those Baathists were sitting on the world's oil reserves, were trying to acquire WMDs, had connections with terrorists in Palestine and had shown time and time again that they had no desire to help their own people and had no hesitation to attack neighboring countries.

No, not our business, right... :rolleyes:

Who made us the arbiter of what nations can so what?

It was not in the jurisdiction of the United States to do squat there.
 
That's pretty close but I would also like to add that the Iraqi Army seems pretty keen to handle the security all by themselves.

*snip*

The Iraqi Army won't be so very competent... and it will be obvious the US prescence was holding back a huge *********.

My useless analysis from a comfy chair.
 
Those Baathists were sitting on the world's oil reserves.

why on earth did God put our oil under the land of those cameljockeys?


somehow i always asumed its the Iraqi oil reserves.
 
Given that we had no business being there in the first place, given that we can't afford to be there, and given that the Iraqis want us out of their lives, the sooner we have our people out of there, the better.

Whatever the outcome, I am sure it will be worse for our intervention.

Continuing to intervene just gives credence to al Qaeda's main complaint against us.

Col Reese agrees with you.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/world/middleeast/31advtext.html

Prime Minister (PM) Maliki hailed June 30th as a “great victory,” implying the victory was over the US. Leaving aside his childish chest pounding, he was more right than he knew. We too ought to declare victory and bring our combat forces home. Due to our tendency to look after the tactical details and miss the proverbial forest for the trees, this critically important strategic realization is in danger of being missed.

Equally important to realize is that we aren’t making the GOI and the ISF better in any significant ways with our current approach. Remaining in Iraq through the end of December 2011 will yield little in the way of improving the abilities of the ISF or the functioning of the GOI.
Restating foxholeatheist's observation for contrast:
FA said:
Most Iraqi's I have meet really want us to stay. On our old FOB there was this one big fat old lady we all called Jabba the Hut. She would always let us use her roof for night OPs. She would make us tea and give us bread and anything we wanted really. When we told her we were leaving she was in tears. She said the Iraqi Police and Army is corrupt and incompetent and little more than a group of well paid thugs. That seems to be the common sentiment from most of the folks I talk too even those in the Iraq Army which I work with daily.
 
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