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Indian Rope Trick

AtheistExile

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I think it was on the History Channel, the other day, that I happened to catch the last half of a segment about the old Indian rope trick. Apparently, the trick is no longer done because the secret has been lost. If you're not familiar with the Indian rope trick, the magician takes a coil of rope and throws it 20 feet up into the air, at which point it instantly becomes as rigid as a pole. A young boy then shimmies up the rope, about half way, then back down. Once the boy is back down, the rope collapses and falls back to the ground, limp as a rope. This is done outdoors in front of a crowd of spectators.

If I understand correctly, the show (I forget its name) offered a reward, in India, for anybody who could successfully demonstrate the trick. One guy performed the trick, but not as impressively as the original. Instead of throwing the rope up in the air, it slowly ascended, then became rigid. The show's host, a magician, tried to get the secret from the Indian magician but failed.

I'm not a magician but I do love to watch magic shows. And I was skeptical that this rope trick was really all that difficult. The diameter of the rope, which must have been 4 inches, immediately suggested to me that the rope could actually be hollow -- a hemp cladding enclosing a 20-foot long tubular bladder that, under high pressure, could be made to instantly go taut and erect. With good timing, the performer could toss the rope up in the air while, simultaneously, his assistant -- hidden underground -- pops the valve on the air tank (fitted to the bottom end of the rope bladder).

But it seems unlikely that this would be sufficient enough to allow the boy to climb up the rope. To permit that, I think the hollow rope would need a rod inserted into it without losing air pressure in the bladder. This presents a problem because of the 20-foot length of the rope. Wouldn't they need a 20-foot hole to hide in?

Not if the rod was sectional. I envision four 5-foot sections of rod with matching "male" and "female" ends that could be inserted up the inflated rope before the boy attempts to climb it.

What do you think? Is this scheme doable? Feasible? How could the rod be inserted without losing air pressure? Is there a better way to do the Indian rope trick?

P.S.
The air bladder would only be needed for the ORIGINAL version of the rope trick. The version of the trick demonstrated on TV could have been done with just metal rod sections.
 
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We aren't supposed to reveal methods in JREF. That said, almost any magic trick can be done with more than one method... and has.
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
It behooves people, and particularly skeptics, to use this wonderful tool we now have available to us called the Internet to research things as the "Indian Rope Trick".

Not a bad place to start is here: [Indian_rope_trick wiki]

Or just read the post from rjh01. ;)
Click to expand...

Because of the secrecy necessary for the magician's craft, I assumed (rightly) that the secret of the rope trick remains a secret. I did NOT consider that the trick is a hoax that has never actually been performed BECAUSE THAT'S NOT TRUE.

Wikipedia explains that the ORIGINAL CLAIM of the Indian rope trick was a hoax. But, obviously, it inspired others to actually figure out ways to perform the trick because we have at least one old black-and-white video and one modern color video of the trick being performed outdoors, in front of an audience, without a tree or other upright in sight. I know for a fact that the trick has been performed at least 2 times because they've been preserved on video at least 2 times.

OF COURSE it's impossible for a normal rope to suspend and go rigid while a boy climbs up and down it. ALL magic, in the end, is a hoax.

marplots said:
We aren't supposed to reveal methods in JREF. That said, almost any magic trick can be done with more than one method... and has.
Click to expand...

Nobody is going to be revealing the secret of the Indian rope trick because the only ones who have actually done it are magicians . . . and they don't reveal their secrets (except for that one guy who has a TV series exposing the secrets of magic tricks). The OP speculates on how the trick could be done and invites further speculation.

It was supposed to be a fun challenge but I guess most alleged skeptics are killjoys.

rjh01 said:
I suggest that the trick is not much now because it never was done and is impossible.
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Nope, rjh01, it's been done and done recently. As a magic act, it's definitely NOT impossible. As I've already stated, above, all magic is a hoax in a very real sense: distraction, smoke and mirrors, body doubles, whatever.
 
marplots said:
We aren't supposed to reveal methods in JREF. That said, almost any magic trick can be done with more than one method... and has.
Click to expand...

I'm curious: does this secrecy prevent or limit discussion of methods for how to critically analyze claims made by paranormal/woowoo pushers claiming miraculous feats, when such supposed feats could have the use of techniques from or related to those of stage magic as a possible explanation?
 
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mike3 said:
I'm curious: does this secrecy prevent or limit discussion of methods for how to critically analyze claims made by paranormal/woowoo pushers claiming miraculous feats, when such supposed feats could have the use of techniques from or related to those of stage magic as a possible explanation?
Click to expand...

I don't know. I posted a thread earlier today about magicians who drift into becoming out and out psychics and I don't anticipate having to reveal methods. I'm going to guess it would be OK so long as they weren't identical to those used on stage.

So, for example, say you have someone who is pushing a perpetual motion machine and I suspect trickery. It's not a magic trick per se, so I might very well identify where a magnet could be concealed. "A magnet" isn't really a method, although sometimes, it is. Now I don't know again.
 
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AtheistExile said:
Because of the secrecy necessary for the magician's craft, I assumed (rightly) that the secret of the rope trick remains a secret. I did NOT consider that the trick is a hoax that has never actually been performed BECAUSE THAT'S NOT TRUE.

Wikipedia explains that the ORIGINAL CLAIM of the Indian rope trick was a hoax. But, obviously, it inspired others to actually figure out ways to perform the trick because we have at least one old black-and-white video and one modern color video of the trick being performed outdoors, in front of an audience, without a tree or other upright in sight. I know for a fact that the trick has been performed at least 2 times because they've been preserved on video at least 2 times.

OF COURSE it's impossible for a normal rope to suspend and go rigid while a boy climbs up and down it. ALL magic, in the end, is a hoax.



Nobody is going to be revealing the secret of the Indian rope trick because the only ones who have actually done it are magicians . . . and they don't reveal their secrets (except for that one guy who has a TV series exposing the secrets of magic tricks). The OP speculates on how the trick could be done and invites further speculation.

It was supposed to be a fun challenge but I guess most alleged skeptics are killjoys.



Nope, rjh01, it's been done and done recently. As a magic act, it's definitely NOT impossible. As I've already stated, above, all magic is a hoax in a very real sense: distraction, smoke and mirrors, body doubles, whatever.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I suggest that a fair bit of confabulation is involved in going from two people disappearing into the clouds, one hacking the other to death, body parts descending and magical rejuvenation; to small girl climbing a few feet up a very thick, short rope.
 
I can't yet include URLs in my posts, but if you go to YouTube and look up "Indian rope trick", you'll find the old black-and-white video I mentioned, as well as the color one (from BBC). There's also one from an old Penn and Teller episode.

P.S.
HEY!! Guess what? I just found a video of James Randi doing a rope trick . . . but not the Indian rope trick. It's on YouTube. Check it out.
 
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About revealing the secrets of magic tricks versus speculating on them . . . I suppose somebody could know the secret and pretend to be speculating about it in order to reveal the secret without appearing to be doing so. Anything's possible.

But on the other hand, even if speculation nails the secret dead on, how would anybody know it's the actual method used in the trick?

My reason for even bringing it up on this forum is because the BBC show I saw on TV made a big deal of the "mystery" of the trick and how the secret has been lost.
 
AtheistExile said:
About revealing the secrets of magic tricks versus speculating on them . . . I suppose somebody could know the secret and pretend to be speculating about it in order to reveal the secret without appearing to be doing so. Anything's possible.

But on the other hand, even if speculation nails the secret dead on, how would anybody know it's the actual method used in the trick?

My reason for even bringing it up on this forum is because the BBC show I saw on TV made a big deal of the "mystery" of the trick and how the secret has been lost.
Click to expand...

I'm no authority on it, but from what I've read and heard in magic circles, it's a case of what the audience saw and what actually happened were probably a mismatch. This is fairly common. It's the difference between an "expert eye" and someone who is just enjoying the show.

But that makes for a problem when it comes to duplicating any particular trick. Do I go with the popular description or imitate what I think actually happened? It's like trying to debunk a UFO story. You get the tale filtered through a witness.

If you post the link to the youtube clip of the actual trick being performed (just put spaces in and one of us will "fix" it and repost), we'll at least know we are talking about the same thing.
 
The old, black-and-white, video of the trick can be found here:

youtube com/watch?v=ImSjQZDoixU
 
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Of course, I'm relying on memory but, it seems to me that I saw the boy go only about half way up the rope. In the video linked in my previous post, the boy climbed to the top of the rope.

You can see how rigid the rope is by watching the the rope at the boy's feet as he shimmies up it. The rope does not give or bend as the boy applies pressure with his feet, grasping to boost himself up. This suggests a solid, non-pliable core.

The video I linked to does not show the rope collapsing afterwards. As I recall, nobody was holding onto the rope when it collapsed. It instantly went from rigid and upright to limp and falling in a heap on the ground.

In another version found on YouTube, a man stood grasping the rope above his head when the rope collapsed. He shouted something very loudly, then the rope collapsed. In this version, if you look closely (full screen) when the rope collapses, it appears as if somebody, underground, swiftly whipped out the rod upon hearing the magician's loud shout. Plus . . . this version doesn't show the very top of the rope (it's out of frame) during the critical parts of the trick. You can find it here:

youtube com/watch?v=Tx_rqOjZOAg
 
Havent searched Youtube but a few magicians have performed this trick,Doug Henning springs to mind.
 
Regardless if there are variations of the Indian Rope Trick today, there never existed the progenitor many people claim. I recommend this book on the subject. It's been a year or so since I read it, and it is now tucked away in one of many moving boxes for a while, so I can't reference it now, but it is an illuminating work.
 
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