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Hysterical strength?

Beckett

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Sep 28, 2003
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To my understanding, hysterical strength is a type of strength considered abnormal and superhuman triggered by desperation. It's often been said that mothers were able to lift their cars in order to rescue their trapped children because of this type of strength.

This is a subject I've long been interested in but haven't been successful finding much information on. The only thing I've read of value on the internet (before giving up my search) was an answer found at www.newscientist.com to a question about what causes a person to be hurled when they are electrocuted. I want more!

Is there any information (besides mere anecdotes) and data on the subject available on the internet or in books for me to peruse?

I must honestly say that at the moment I don't believe in hysterical strength, or rather, that I don't think what is often reported as examples of its use in action are anything other than ordinary. That is, I think the feats performed, such as those by the mothers aforementioned for example, were done by using proper posture, total body strength rather than arm or leg strength alone, and overriding fear of personal injury, but not of tapping previously restrained strength potential. Also there are other things to consider. What is the position of the car? upright? overturned? on a slope? Where is the child trapped? underneath the motor? underneath the trunk? underneath the hood? between the wheels? inside? If they are not within the vehicle, how far under are they pinned? From where on the car is it lifted and how high? What was the terrain like where the car rested upon? I think answers to these questions might help to explain just how the car was raised in each event, and, unfortunately to this comic book reader, less entertainingly so than the explanation of employment of hysterical strength. Still, I find it an interesting subject that seems to be more accepted than many of the things discussed in these forums.

What are your thoughts on the subject?
 
I do recall that Dr. Bruce Banner was working on some research in this field.

However, he disappeared shortly after announcing he was close to a breakthrough.

His disappearance was rumored to be caused by a mysterious creature spotted in the area. Here's a composite sketch of the creature:


hulk.jpg
 
I'm pretty sure there are verified cases of said car being lifted, but I doubt the car was not touching the ground anymore, probably just the bit being tugged at a ways above the ground.

That would markedly cut down the amount of force we're looking at here.

That said, I don't think there's any human spinal column strong enough to support the entire wieght of a car, nor any humerus or other collection of arm bones strong enough to do the lifting.

I would say it's a fairly well established, if poorly described or known, phenonenon. Hardly supernatural, though it would be puzzling at first why we don't use all our strength (if there's all that untapped strength there in the first place) all the time.

Here's an experiment:

1) Find something imobile that there's no way (wih or without hysterical strength) that you could move. A tree's a good one.

2) Find a really good handhold.

3) Tug on the sucker. Hard.

4) You're not trying hard enough.

5) Harder you pansy.

6) Feel the burn!

7) I've seen grandma's do better than that!

You get the idea. When you release you death grip on the unfortunate tree, I predict that you will be in considerable pain. that is why our muscles are never used to full potential, their strength exceeds the structural limitations of our bones, tendons and ligaments.

Ever see the scene in Ghost in the Shell where the main character takes on the wierd tank thingie? This is what I'm thinking of.

I bet you don't exert your muscles to that kind of degree without harming the muscles either.
 
Adrenaline makes the human body do things it normally can't.

There is significant price to be paid afterward, in damage, downtime, the shakes, etc.

Scared people run faster. Not superhumanly fast, just faster FOR THEM.
 
RDRR, Silicon. :p One imaginary point to you for coming up with a pic of the Hulk so quickly. Four more and you can get an imaginary "Sugar Daddy".

Actually, as I was writing this I was reminded of the pilot episode for "The Incredible Hulk", specifically the scene when Dr. Banner is interviewing a mother who did exactly what I described in my previous post. Now, I'm also reminded that many of the episodes are available on DVD and that I miss not seeing the show on the Sci-Fi Channel.

I also want to take this time to correct myself when I said that hysterical strength "seems to be more accepted than many of the things discussed in these forums". Actually, I don't think the general population is as familiar with the subject as they are with ghosts, alien visitations, talking to the dead, etc. and there probably is or simply is a larger belief in these latter subjects, among others as a result. I meant to say that hysterical strength, when discussed, hardly if ever is questioned or criticized in the news or elsewhere - at least not that I have seen - and seems to simply be regarded as true or more likely a possibility at the very least unlike/than ghosts, alien visitations, talking to the dead, I dating Niki Taylor, etc.
 
There are probably hundreds of stories of such things, many originating in wartime.
Tales of sailors picking 500 pound bombs up from the flightdeck of aircraft carriers and tossing them off the side. (loose ordnance from a crashed aircraft)
Or, ripping the Top Secret safe loose from the bulkhead so that it could be jettisoned, because the sailor tasked with getting the secret documents didn't have the combination. (the ship was sinking...)

These are most likely urban (wartime?) legends that have grown considerably in the telling. After all, the best witnesses are probably not found among guys who are being bombed or are aboard sinking ships.

Police work abounds with tales of drug-fueled super strength as well. Pretty reliable tales of prisoners on PCP breaking handcuffs, kicking locked police car doors open, etc. Frequently severe injuries are incurred by these efforts.
 
Beckett said:
and seems to simply be regarded as true or more likely a possibility at the very least unlike/than ghosts, alien visitations, talking to the dead, I dating Niki Taylor, etc.
Click to expand...

By virtue of the fact that there is substantiated evidence for it. And only, I might add, by virtue of that fact.
 
Two more responses while I wrote my previous post!

Neutrino_cannon, I too have wondered just how accurate these "well documented" events are and if they are at all embellished or if there just isn't a simple explanation saying how a car can be lifted, perhaps easily as you described? I've also been wondering why I don't hear of this phenomenon being replicated in a controlled environment like a lab. I've heard of research done on athletes to make them perform better, but not of the average person to make them do things beyond their normal capacity strengthwise, which of course is why I originally posted!

Silicon, I wonder if those said people are running faster than they normally would simply due to drive. After all, if the need isn't there, why bother? And if we're not aware of what we are capable of, we might surprise ourselves when we do something we ordinarily would not, just as when we do attempt to reach our known full potential we can realize when it hasn't been met.

I personally don't think there is any such thing as hysterical strength. Any feats reported to have been accomplished through hysterical strength, in my opinion, is nothing more than the results of attempting to explain a seemingly incredible phenomenon like ghosts are used to explain strange noises, shadows, or lights. I believe feats accomplished using so-called hysterical strength are simply done by meeting one's full strength potential, but given a new term when using it to do things out of the ordinary (like moving overturned automobiles to rescue someone, continuing to move despite serious injuries sustained to flee or seek help, etc.), rather than doing anything actually extraordinary, due to desire or need. Lifting a car in itself sounds amazing, but if the car's weight was unevely balanced favorably so for the rescuer, or if the other side of the car dangled over a small ditch, how incredible does it sound now?

I believe feats involving hysterical strength are much like illusions. To the layman they may seem impossible or perhaps even magical, but an understanding of various sciences (which I am admittedly ignorant of) may lead to a less than amazing but accurate explanation of what's behind the feat. For example, a strongman may be able to keep two small airplanes facing opposite directions from taking off, but leave him with one and I cringe to think what may become of him. It's his understanding of what can be done and how to do it, as well as being trained physically and mentally, that makes the feat possible, and something he can do often when allowed time to recover. However, I think another, untrained person possessing the same strength may also be able to do the same thing if the need was great enough and the task was done exactly the same way (whether knowingly by the performer or simply by chance), and if done once then again. Another example: I remember one story I've heard on a TV show about a woman moving something (I think it was fallen concrete?) to rescue a child and others claiming that they tried to move it unsuccessfully after the event. I wonder, if the original conditions were actually met, meaning placing something like a dummy that can substitute for the person trapped and in the same position, as well as placing the object that trapped them over the dummy exactly as it was, would they still not be able to move it in the manner she did?

With more study, I fear hysterical strength will just become another entry in Randi's Encyclopedia. But, if you think otherwise, I'd like to hear why!

Thanks to everyone who posted! Unfortunately, I won't be able to respond as often for a while but will try to if necessary or possible.
 
Silicon said:
Adrenaline makes the human body do things it normally can't.

There is significant price to be paid afterward, in damage, downtime, the shakes, etc.

Scared people run faster. Not superhumanly fast, just faster FOR THEM.
Click to expand...


but you wouldn't be able to lift more than the breaking point of the bone. and we have sonething calledthe golgi tendon organ that prevents us from lifting more than we should/ can I don't know a lot about it but within reason I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand as woo-woo. that is a woman lifting a VW off her husband maybe....but as someone suggested there maybe non accurate reporting in many cases.


Virgil
 
Now, this is just an anecdote of course. I saw my friend Tob lift a Ford Escort's rear end off the ground all by himself. He is a moose and a car has all it's weight in the front. He got the back tires maybe the better part of an inch off the ground. He basically did a squat.
I know this is true. If you have any huge, possibly steroid taking friends, put it to the test. My friend had no ill effects.
I think he more or less did an 800-1000 pound squat, With!, a 300 pound engine as a counter-balance.

This might explain a lot of the "lifted the car off her child" stories.

edited to add BTW- he did this just for the hell of it.
 
While I can recall the figures, I do remember that muscle tissue can lift quite an extraordinary amount of weight. We did some experiment at uni with frog muscle tissue and soaked it in acetylcholine (hmm, I think it was aCh....man my brain's fuzzy these days) to make it contract. It lifted a decent amount of weight for the size of the tissue.

We are unfortunately limited by the tendons that join muscle to bone, which have a greater ability to tear away from the bone. Hence a lot of runners will rip their achilles tendon rather than tear a muscle in half. I think bones can also snap before a muscle will rip apart. It may have something to do with the way the cells align.

Any thoughts?

Athon
 
/Anecdote alert/: My parents told me that my late grandmother lifted the big wardrobe in my sister's room in order to help my sister who crawled under the wardrobe but could not get out. Later she tried to lift the wardrobe out of curiosity, but could not do it. /End of anecdote/

I never thought there is anything supernatural about the explanation. I just assumed that people, when they sense danger, activate all of their resources (fight or flight response). I would suppose (just guessing, I am not an expert) that one is able under such circumstances to lift a heavier wight than normal because of adrenalin rush, and blocking of the sensation of pain. It is a survival mechanism. I would suppose the mechanism is similar whether it is you that you are protecting, or your loved ones.
 
I just thought of another possibility - I would assume that in theory, if a child manages to crawl under a car or under a wardrobe, than it really should be possible for him or her to get out of there as well. Maybe the child, seeing that the parent is DOING something to help (ATTEMPTING to lift the heavy object, rather than actually lifting it), is encouraged to re-attempt to crawl out and succeeds, regardless of whether the car/wardrobe was actually lifted or not?
 
Lifting heavy objects hurts. At work, I often lift 50kg objects (carefully). I have lifted objects twice that heavy, with great difficulty and considerable discomfort. Clearly, the maximum that I can lift, without immediate musculoskeletal damage, is higher, but I don't because it hurts to try.
If it did not hurt, I can easily imagine doing myself serious damage in an emergency where it was vital to lift something very heavy.

And if I'm scared enough, I notice, things do stop hurting.

So yes- we all have a real mechanical limit: we all have a self imposed psychological limit. There is a range in between. We can enter that range if suitably motivated.

Five barred gates come to mind.
 
Under very stressful situations I would expect a 20-25% increase in strength. Not more. This page has an interesting discussion about it, with some nice citations of relevant studies. Strength trained athletes are already capable of activating a greater percentage of their muscle fibers, so for these individuals there is not as much room for improvement with electrical stimulation or stress.

The stories about weaklings lifting trunks (or even trucks) are just urban legends.
 
Then there's the debate we often hear among football players:

"Duhhh, we're gonna play 110 percent!"

"Well, WE're gonna play 120 percent!"

Which is not quite as funny as the Boss saying we'll have to do more with less.
 
athon said:
While I can recall the figures, I do remember that muscle tissue can lift quite an extraordinary amount of weight. We did some experiment at uni with frog muscle tissue and soaked it in acetylcholine (hmm, I think it was aCh....man my brain's fuzzy these days) to make it contract. It lifted a decent amount of weight for the size of the tissue.

We are unfortunately limited by the tendons that join muscle to bone, which have a greater ability to tear away from the bone. Hence a lot of runners will rip their achilles tendon rather than tear a muscle in half. I think bones can also snap before a muscle will rip apart. It may have something to do with the way the cells align.

Any thoughts?

Athon
Click to expand...

Personal experience is that my muscles tear before tendons rupture, or bones break.

I've been lifting weights since I was 17 (23 years now). Every few years, usually while doing chores of some sort, I'll try to move something that's a bit too heavy, and feel that familiar twinge and hear that same, old sound which means I've f*cked myself up again, and it'll be another 6 weeks of loafing while things heal.

This is anecdotal, I know, but add it to the database.
 
For some reason, this thread makes me think of the old He-Man cartoon, where the title character would groan and grimace with effort while he held down a spaceship trying to take off. :)

Jeremy
 
...heh. This is the first time I've realised there is anything wrong with that situation.
 
In high school, when we went out for gym, we'd (about 8 of us)sometimes pick up a small car and move it onto the grass. It required some strength, and it was definitely hysterical...
 
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