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hypnosis challenge protocol

lpcrispo

New Blood
L
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
7
Hello there,

First, let me tell you that i'm sorry for my bad english…

Is there any test protocol for hypnosis that has already been done ?
me and a friend are arguing about stage hypnosis ( "Messmer", the french canadian in particular) and i can't come up wit a good test that could be done and approved by both part ( skeptics and the hypnosis crowd..)…

so someone has something to propose ?

thanks
 
Well, the first question would be: What is the person claiming that hypnosis can do?
 
Well... he is doing stage hypnosis...
for example : "he "can" make you do like you were a dog "involuntarily".
only by looking into your eyes and clapping is finger..."

lets say this is his claim!
 
Is there something supposedly supernatural about hypnosis? If this is an experiment about a particular individual's ability to do something hard--but not supernatural--then it doesn't really fit the challenge.
 
While I'm of the firm opinion that hypnotism is a bunch of woo, are James Randi, Banachek and the JREF on the same page? This isn't a facetious question - I have no reason to think they wouldn't be, but I can't recall a position on this and know there are a lot of people here who are much better versed than me in what stands have been taken or not taken.
 
The problem with the test protocol here is that "Messmer" is claiming that not every one is "sensible" to hypnosis... the "you got to believe in it for it to work" kind of thing... so if we use a "skeptic" like Jeff Wagg he could claim that his mind is too closed for this to work... that's why in his show he "test" all of the audience and then the one who tested positive go on stage...

and if we use someone else, how can we be sure he/she is really under the effect of hypnosis and not "doing it for the laugh".... that's the problem here..

as to if i believe in it or not : I think there may be a possibility that hypnosis in a relaxing environment MAY work... i'm not sure... but, my problem is with STAGE hypnosis... that in a finger snapping moment you can fall down to sleep and then do some stupid thing that he ask you to do....
 
Well, you'll need a subject who both believes in hypnosis and is willing to be hypnotized. This will be a person who knows they may be compelled to do embarrassing things, such as barking like a dog. So by volunteering, this subject will indicate they are willing to bark like a dog.

In what sense, then, are they being hypnotized?
 
lpcrispo said:
Well... he is doing stage hypnosis...
for example : "he "can" make you do like you were a dog "involuntarily".
only by looking into your eyes and clapping is finger..."

lets say this is his claim!
Click to expand...
That specifically? We need to know exactly what he intends to do, and its best that he narrow it down to just one or two different specific items.
 
Czarcasm said:
That specifically? We need to know exactly what he intends to do, and its best that he narrow it down to just one or two different specific items.
Click to expand...

Well, as the OP pointed out in a subsequent post, since part of the mystique and patter (the con) of stage hypnosis is that some people are just not hypnotisable, I can't see what it matters as to exactly what he claims he can do.

A willing subject is going to believe or go along. There can be no double blinding because even if the subject doesn't know the test activity at first, they will have to hear the hypnotists commands in order to react to them. How could they not? I cannot see a way around this problem with any sort of "hypnotic suggestion" to perform an activity.

Now, maybe they could claim to be able to induce an impossible to control physiological effect. Say, hiccoughs? I'm sure you can measure a real hiccough versus a dramatized/fake one. "At the count of three you will encounter a case of hiccoughs. One, two,... three." (I'm just going by my own reaction to hiccoughs. Real ones seem to rattle you from the diaphragm, while fake ones are in the throat.)

And if you try to put in a non-believer, they can always fall back on their original patter about some people not being hypnotisable - a variation on the usual psychic's b.s. about the vibes just not being right at that moment. (Think Uri Geller embarassing himself in front of Carson's national audience.)
 
lpcrispo said:
Well... he is doing stage hypnosis...
Click to expand...

Wikipedia:

Stage hypnosis is a form of entertainment, traditionally employed in a club or theatre before an audience. Due to stage hypnotists' showmanship, many people believe that hypnosis is a form of mind control. Stage hypnotists typically attempt to hypnotise the entire audience and then select individuals who are "under" to come up on stage and perform embarrassing acts, while the audience watches. However, the effects of stage hypnosis are probably due to a combination of psychological factors, participant selection, suggestibility, physical manipulation, stagecraft, and trickery.[80] The desire to be the centre of attention, having an excuse to violate their own fear suppressors and the pressure to please are thought to convince subjects to 'play along'.[81][page needed] Books by stage hypnotists sometimes explicitly describe the use of deception in their acts, for example, Ormond McGill's New Encyclopedia of Stage Hypnosis describes an entire "fake hypnosis" act that depends upon the use of private whispers throughout.

Under uncontrolled conditions this dosent seem to be of concern. But if someone can actually make anyone at the snap of their fingers get on all fours and act like a dog until snapped out of it, that would be something I think. All depends on how detailed his claim is in what he wants to demonstrate.
 
lpcrispo said:
and if we use someone else, how can we be sure he/she is really under the effect of hypnosis and not "doing it for the laugh".... that's the problem here..
Click to expand...

The problem you mention is impossible to control for in any possible case. Which makes hypnosis an unfalsifiable claim.
 
Checkmite said:
The problem you mention is impossible to control for in any possible case. Which makes hypnosis an unfalsifiable claim.
Click to expand...

Right, unless the hypnotist claimed he or she could control anybody whether they resisted or not. Then you'd have a case, like in the Rosemary Hunter challenge, where the JREF would make an exception to the "bring your own subject" condition and provide their own subject like they did with Jeff Wagg.
 
if it's a standard stage hypnosis act, nothing is happening that cannot be equally well explained by non-paranormal means.
 
The question of some people not able to be hypnotized might be addressed by having multiple subjects. The claimant should be able to produce the effect among the test group at a greater rate than among the control group.

The bigger question would be how to control.
 
Tim Harrod said:
Well, you'll need a subject who both believes in hypnosis and is willing to be hypnotized. This will be a person who knows they may be compelled to do embarrassing things, such as barking like a dog. So by volunteering, this subject will indicate they are willing to bark like a dog.

In what sense, then, are they being hypnotized?
Click to expand...

Barking like a dog is not embarrassing. Try running naked in a room full of people for example.
 
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