How To Ensure Chavez Steps down in 2012

Dave1001

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Thoughts? Chavez seems to have won election fair and square. But his own constitution limits him to two 6 year terms: this is his second one. How can the world ensure that he steps down after his second term so that good governance can supercede individual charisma? I think the best way is to hold his feet to the fire over all 6 years, and make it clear that the world expects him to step down, and for new candidates to run for office in 2012.
 
While I feel sorry for the people of Venezuela, I believe daredelvis is correct. If they continue to elect him, he's their problem.
 
Well, based on the Venezuelan Constitution, the Venezuelan people are unable to re-elect Chavez in 2012, since he'll have already served two 6 year terms. He's a lame duck president. Without a doubt strong elements of the Venezuelan population won't want the constitution amended to remove presidential term limits. I would like to world to show them support in preventing the devolution from good governance in Venezuela in that way.
 
Chavez is not Castro yet. Hopefully he will never be. But I don't trust his democratic ideals.

Sure, he DID put into his new constitution the ability to remove a president before the end of the term, by a referendum. He was called on it, and complied, albeit reluctantly. He didn't have to put that clause in the constitution, I don't know of many countries that have it. But I'm still not convinced, there are too many bad vibes around him.

I would distinctly advise against 'holding his feet to the fire'. He should be treated as a democratically elected leader, we should be attentive towards transgressions of democratic principles, but we should also respect the right of the Venezolans to elect their own leaders.

Hopefully they will vote 'no' in the referendum. South America has had enough movements fixated on a particular leader. They need something that transcends into a mass movement, something that is not dependant on the judgement and good will of one individual.
 
Dave1001 said:
Well, based on the Venezuelan Constitution, the Venezuelan people are unable to re-elect Chavez in 2012, since he'll have already served two 6 year terms. He's a lame duck president. Without a doubt strong elements of the Venezuelan population won't want the constitution amended to remove presidential term limits. I would like to world to show them support in preventing the devolution from good governance in Venezuela in that way.
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The same way the world reacted when this crap was floated about Reagan?

Chavez is in power because the status quo had ignored a large percentage of the Venezuelan population in favor of the interest of business. His answer may prove more catastrophic to the poor of his country, but you can't ignore that it appeals to the citizenry of Venezuela.

Daredelvis
 
daredelvis said:
Chavez is in power because the status quo had ignored a large percentage of the Venezuelan population in favor of the interest of business. His answer may prove more catastrophic to the poor of his country, but you can't ignore that it appeals to the citizenry of Venezuela.

Daredelvis
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Aristide likewise appealed to many in Haiti. Did that make him a good president?

DR
 
No, but neither does it mean we should do anything about Venezuela's bad choices.
 
daredelvis said:
The same way the world reacted when this crap was floated about Reagan?



Daredelvis
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Good point. Reagan and perhaps Clinton could have demagouged to multiple, perhaps unending terms (though Alzheimer would have put a limit on Reagan). I'm glad that we were deprived those outcomes in Venezuela, and I wish the Venezuelans our same good fortune of having institutions that are greater than charasmatic individuals.
 
Dave1001 said:
I think the best way is to hold his feet to the fire over all 6 years, and make it clear that the world expects him to step down, and for new candidates to run for office in 2012.
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What makes you think that would work? Generally speaking, people don't like outsiders interfering with their internal affairs. It pisses them off. And people who are pissed off at you have a tendency to do exactly what you don't want them to do, for no other reason than because they're pissed off. That's basic human nature.
 
I know, Darth. I was just answering the question, with an explanation of the question's relevance. Didn't mean to attribute to you a position you didn't take.
 
Darth Rotor said:
Aristide likewise appealed to many in Haiti. Did that make him a good president?

DR
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I was not stating that Chavez is a good or bad president. All I am saying is that people do not tend to come to power in a vacuum. Leaders like Chavez appeal to people because they see them as +an alternative to a system that is not working for them.

Daredelvis
 
egslim said:
What makes you think that would work? Generally speaking, people don't like outsiders interfering with their internal affairs. It pisses them off. And people who are pissed off at you have a tendency to do exactly what you don't want them to do, for no other reason than because they're pissed off. That's basic human nature.
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We live in a globalized world. We're all free as individuals to lobby each other. It makes sense to me for the individuals of the world to show that we expect Chavez to step down in 2012, as his constitution says he must and as would be good governance.

There's no way he can justify repealing presidential term limits as being a good thing for Venezuela or Venezuelans. In a nation of millions there will be many capable leaders for them to select from in 2012.
 
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