How many weeks until another "Kent State"

[jj]

The title says it all. Using minimal force on people blocking a street is sensible. Gratuitously pepper spraying people who are sitting legally on grass by the side of the street isn't. Justifying it with an explicit, direct lie shows the arrogance and confidence held by the thugs.

The fact that afterwards, they draw weapons, well, it's only a matter of time. Which leads me to the poll:

How long?

 

[epepke]

I don't think that even a Kent State will be a Kent State. This country has taken such a sharp right turn that I don't think that killing a mere four students will have much of an effect.

 

[adams101]

At this point it could not happen until both Facebook and Twitter go down for at least a week. The focus of the college civil unrest would be to get Facebook and Twitter back up and nothing to do with the country going to hell in a hand basket.

The current generation is politically worthless. They did nothing on the meltdown, nothing on no Congressional investigations, nothing on the bailouts, nothing on the the 3 undeclared, unfunded wars for corporate profits, nothing on the FED shoving $16 trillion out the back door to Europe between 2009 and 2010, as well as no federal budget cuts. They also did nothing when all the deficit junkies reelected all the same incumbents that orchestrated, executed and covered up the meltdown. Oh and a 2074 page ObamaCare bill nobody wanted that will take 10 years to even figure out what is in it. I could go on and on but they are politically lobotomized.

I mean what is this generation waiting for? If a dictator arose in this mess they would all just start building pyramids as long as they could keep their Iphones with unlimited text. Absolutely inexcusable.

 

[Ziggurat]

It's already happened.

Oh, you mean when a peaceful OWS protester gets killed by someone other than another OWS protester. Because that doesn't count, for some reason.

 

[Ziggurat]

I don't think that even a Kent State will be a Kent State. This country has taken such a sharp right turn that I don't think that killing a mere four students will have much of an effect.

We've taken such a turn to the right, the police regularly kill student protesters.

Oh, wait, that's not what happens at all. Instead, the whole country pays attention when some jackass starts screaming, "Don't taze me, bro!"

 

[leftysergeant]

We've taken such a turn to the right, the police regularly kill student protesters.

Oh, wait, that's not what happens at all. Instead, the whole country pays attention when some jackass starts screaming, "Don't taze me, bro!"

Pay attention. Some idiot cop already sent a Marine Corps combat veteran to the hospital with a fractured skull by firing a high-velocity tear gas grenade into Occupy Oakland.

Somebody needs a suppository to remove a large round object from his lower digestive tract.

 

[geni]

Its unlikely. Modern crown control tactics are more advanced and I suspect there are enough police on hand to remove the need to deploy troops.

Remeber the anti-globalization protests in the late 90s early 2000s were handled with out much in the way of deaths.

 

[geni]

We've taken such a turn to the right, the police regularly kill student protesters.

Kent State was national guard not the police.

Oh, wait, that's not what happens at all. Instead, the whole country pays attention when some jackass starts screaming, "Don't taze me, bro!"

You appear to be some years behind the times.

 

[leftysergeant]

Its unlikely. Modern crown control tactics are more advanced and I suspect there are enough police on hand to remove the need to deploy troops.

All well and good if the cops follow their training and do not let rougue elements in their ranks go off the rails, and city and state officials do not greenlight the head-cracking.

That some idiot shot a shotgun-launched grenade into Occupy Oakland shows that somebody has gone off the rails. The worthless schmuck who authorized that and/or the fool who fired it should be off the public payroll LAST WEEK.

Remeber the anti-globalization protests in the late 90s early 2000s were handled with out much in the way of deaths.

But there are now elements in government in some places who know that if the movement succedes, they are going to lose a lot of the power they now hold. Tyrants have a tendancy to get out of hand in that sort of situation.

It would not surprise me if Il Duce started turning the dogs lose on protestors and recall activists in Wisconsin.

 

[jj]

It's revealing how many of the respondents to this poll react with typically totalitarian responses. Just look at the numbers above, 4 of the respondents hate free speech and endorse various levels of violence against peaceful protest.

The UC Davis incident is the latest clear evidence that overt violence is happening, and that the people committing the violence think that they have the upper hand to the point where they will never be held responsible. It was, if one credits the multiple different videos on the net, mere seconds away from something much, much worse than Kent State.

 

[epepke]

It's revealing how many of the respondents to this poll react with typically totalitarian responses. Just look at the numbers above, 4 of the respondents hate free speech and endorse various levels of violence against peaceful protest.

This sort of shows my point, nicht wahr?

The UC Davis incident is the latest clear evidence that overt violence is happening, and that the people committing the violence think that they have the upper hand to the point where they will never be held responsible. It was, if one credits the multiple different videos on the net, mere seconds away from something much, much worse than Kent State.

The UC Davis video rang of cold sociopathy. It reminded me of Hannibal Lechter spraying the guard, only worse, as Lechter was displaying some emotion and appeared, therefore, weirdly more human.

Kent State was not, as far as I can remember. It was a triggered chaotic event involving panic. It's quite easy to see how this could happen, even with far less provocation than Kent State. It doesn't even take rogues. Just every time, a little more "security." A tiny increase, scarcely noticeable and plausibly justifiable. Tensions mounting more and more. Then something happens, and next thing you know, there's a lot of blood.

 

[Bikewer]

As most know, I'm a police officer and I have been involved in potentially-violent demonstrations.
I must admit that some of the things I've seen coming out of the OWS protests are not along the lines of the training I've received and I am rather appalled that while the state department is screaming bloody murder about the violent repression of peaceful protest elsewhere in the world, the same thing is going on here.
Oh, we're not firing live ammunition into crowds, but much of the response has been over the top.

I don't think we're at Kent State level yet... As noted, that was a National Guard unit and one poorly-chosen for the task. Undertrained and exhausted by most accounts.
A shock to the entire nation that no one wants to repeat.

Handling large-crowd situations can be really, seriously difficult. A peaceful group can turn to a mob in a second. Sometimes, the precipitating event isn't even an event; a simple rumor will be sufficient.
As well, there are occasionally agitators that deliberately provoke or attack police in order to draw a film-able response. These agitators may not even be involved in the protest; by all accounts the recent violence in Portland was caused by groups of "anarchist" types who had shown up to join the fun and stir things up.

Personally, I don't like the way these things are going, on either side. I sympathize with the OWS protesters, but I think they are going to have to go political to accomplish anything. The protests seem to be drawing a lot of sympathy but a lot of flack as well.. Much as was the case back in the 60s.

 

[jj]

Kent State was not, as far as I can remember. It was a triggered chaotic event involving panic.

To some extent. However, bringing in out-of-county guard from another part of the state with (then strongly different) politics was part of the problem. One could argue it was an accident.

Btw, lived about 40 miles east of the place when it went down.

 

[WildCat]

It's revealing how many of the respondents to this poll react with typically totalitarian responses.

People are yanking your chain jj.

 

[jj]

Handling large-crowd situations can be really, seriously difficult. A peaceful group can turn to a mob in a second. Sometimes, the precipitating event isn't even an event; a simple rumor will be sufficient.

Agreed. I also have some long-ago experience in crowd control (meaning not on a friendly basis), and I know this is very difficult.

What disturbs me is that now I've seen multiple video versions of 3 different events (Oakland, Davis, and one of the NY sweeps) that very, very much appear like the police in question are deliberately, willfully trying to start a full-blown, violent riot.

Davis, in particular, was, to me, deliberate, obvious provocation. The oakland shooting (ok,with a tear gas cannister, but a 3" skull fracture from a projectile is a shooting, sorry) could have been stupidity or ignorance. I'm undecided about the beating up of the reporter in NY with the words "tonight you aren't press, there is no press tonight". Loose cannon or deliberate intimidation, its bad either way.

Doing incitement, as the police, in a situation involving a hostile crowd is at best stunningly ignorant and irresponsible. It's putting everyone in danger.

At Davis,when you see the guns raised, I still contend that was seconds away from multiple deaths. The police seemed to do little to defuse the situation after they incited it, and it appears that the protestors very pointedly defused the situation for the police.

And that is fortunate.

 

[theprestige]

In this day and age, I think the only way another "Kent State" could happen would be if it were engineered to happen by the protestors.

Cops are human, and they do make mistakes. They can certainly lose their tempers and commit errors of judgement.

But by and large, they have much better protocols nowadays, and a better selection of nonlethal tools at their disposal. Well-trained, well-equipped, well-prepared cops will be much less likely to shoot peaceful protestors.

But it could happen. Training, equipment, and preparedness only go so far. Put the cop in a stressful enough situation, and accidents become likely. But there is a way to guarantee that no cop shoots any protestor.

The cop picking up ladies at the local watering hole after his shift is over will never shoot a protestor. The cop filling out paperwork over a cup of coffee at the local diner will never shoot a protestor. The cop at home reading his child a bedtime story or studying for the sergeant's exam will never shoot a protestor. The cop flying a kite in the park, or taking night classes at the community college, or grilling hamburgers in his back yard, or visiting relatives in Canada, or vacationing in Tuscany, or watching the Big Game on his big-screen TV, will never shoot a protestor.

Will errors occur? If this goes on long enough, probably. But I think they will be forced errors, more often than not.

 

[jj]

People are yanking your chain jj.

Of course you would excuse such behavior. It was expected.

 

[epepke]

In this day and age, I think the only way another "Kent State" could happen would be if it were engineered to happen by the protestors.

You know, I've heard "it can't happen here" quite a lot, and I no longer believe it.

 

[WildCat]

Of course you would excuse such behavior. It was expected.

Because you're all too eager to overreact.

As has been pointed out, the only OWS protester who was shot was shot by other protesters. They've also attacked each other with fists and hammers, such is the result of allowing them to recreate Lord of the Flies with their encampments.

 

[caniswalensis]

It's revealing how many of the respondents to this poll react with typically totalitarian responses. Just look at the numbers above, 4 of the respondents hate free speech and endorse various levels of violence against peaceful protest.

I wouldn't read to much into it, m'man.

Some of your answers are worded in a way that is seemingly humorous or toungue in cheek.

'Only commies would post a poll like this. '
'They're coming for you, too, jj. '
'It doesn't matter, we're all slaves anyhow. '
'Turn yourself in to Homeland Security, traitor. '
'What's your problem, Houston? '

Some members here will automatically choose such answers in a spirit of fun. The mere presence of such answers makes the the poll seem not very serious.

I think if you wanted meaningful results, you should have made fewer, more clear cut answers and avoided the humorous wording. This poll was a great way to get a discussion started, but I do not believe the results can be used to demonstrate real attitudes or beliefs.

Regards, Canis