• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

How do you raise skeptic children?

EGarrett

Illuminator
E
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
3,086
I recently sent this e-mail to Randi, and I'm curious what everyone else thinks.
_______________________

I don't know if you've addressed this in a commentary yet, but maybe one day you could.

As a parent who is a skeptic and atheist, how would you handle teaching your children? Should you allow them illusions about woo things, like Santa Claus, and trust them to realize the truth as they age? A lot of people don't.

And how do you teach them about death? A lot of adults have trouble handling it, let alone a small child.

Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks as always.
 
No, you don't lie to a child. What kind of a parent are you ?

There is a vast difference between make-believe and lying.
 
EGarrett said:
I recently sent this e-mail to Randi, and I'm curious what everyone else thinks.
_______________________

I don't know if you've addressed this in a commentary yet, but maybe one day you could.

As a parent who is a skeptic and atheist, how would you handle teaching your children? Should you allow them illusions about woo things, like Santa Claus, and trust them to realize the truth as they age? A lot of people don't.

And how do you teach them about death? A lot of adults have trouble handling it, let alone a small child.

Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks as always.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat as you. As of yet, my daughter's only 7 months old, so there's been no need to worry about this sort of thing. So far, my wife and I've agreed that we will tell her the truth about Santa Claus from the get go. As for gods, well, my wife's a nominal theist, so the compromise is that she won't take my daughter to church as a child. We will instruct her on what the various religions teach at home, and how they contradict science, and, when she gets old enough, if she decides to be a theist, we won't stop her.

Like I said, I haven't had to worry about this yet, so, take it for what it's worth.

Marc
 
buy childrens books that reflect critical thinking, like "The Emperor's New Clothes". Children enjoy fantasy, and so a belief in talking teddy bears doesn't mean the kids is going to be a woo.

TV is a lot of fun, you can watch "Mythbusters" together and also several woo shows. Just talk to your kid. Ask them questions, "why do you think someone would say they say a ghost?" things like that. In a way, teach them critical thinking skills instead of "how to be a skeptic".

Skeptic parents have it easy. Because we give kids the skills to think for themselves. We expose them to the world and other beliefs (so they can see how many different beliefs there are) where other belief systems try to shelter their children out of fear.
 
I´m on this boat too... My wife is a Catholic (a rather lousy one, thanks to my "evil" influence), but both families are religious. Our son is just 1 and 1/2 months old, and we are wondering on how to educate him on these issues. We agreed on no religious education, but the families will oppose. Baptism is the first concession we (more specifically , I) will make to the families. We plan no other concessions, but it will be hard to avoid the external influences.
 
My fiancee and I are both atheists (saves a lot of trouble, lemme tell ya), and we plan on making no religious concessions to the rest of our families. We've got both Xians and Jews, and there will be no baptisms, no Mitzvahs, nothing.

We plan on teaching our children about what other people believe, and also explain why mommy and daddy don't believe that stuff.

We'll probably do the Santa Claus thing and let it be the kid's first lesson in critical thinking. Let 'em figure it out for themselves.
 
Randomly hug or beat the little brats. This will teach them not to trust anybody. Hey, it worked on me....

But I'm sure there is a kinder, gentler way of teaching critical thinking.
 
JLam said:
We'll probably do the Santa Claus thing and let it be the kid's first lesson in critical thinking. Let 'em figure it out for themselves.
Click to expand...

Why not also do the "Baptism thing" and have it be another critical thinking lesson? Let the little carpet rats figure out themselves that being dunked underwater doesn't mean squat within the "big picture". After all, what's the harm? How many kids have drowned after having their head dunked into a Baptisimal pool? Go for it. Give the kiddies a full earthly experience before they get the chance to engage their skepticism.
 
William Parcher said:
Why not also do the "Baptism thing" and have it be another critical thinking lesson? Let the little carpet rats figure out themselves that being dunked underwater doesn't mean squat within the "big picture". After all, what's the harm? How many kids have drowned after having their head dunked into a Baptisimal pool? Go for it. Give the kiddies a full earthly experience before they get the chance to engage their skepticism.
Click to expand...
Because the "Santa thing" is fun. And I don't know of anyone who was harmed by thinking that Santa was real as a kid.

Baptism, on the other hand......
 
JLam said:
Because the "Santa thing" is fun. And I don't know of anyone who was harmed by thinking that Santa was real as a kid.

Baptism, on the other hand......
Click to expand...

On the other hand what? Getting your head momentarily dunked underwater by a "God dude" is not much different than accidentally sliding down in your "atheist toddler bathtub" and having your head duck under the surface.

Maybe it's all a bad idea. Maybe the child reared by skeptics will resent and question why the parents ever did the Santa Thing. "Gee Mom & Dad, you guys know the Santa Thing is a farce... yet within your own skepticism you chose to expose me to it as if I were some kind of experiment to see how I might deal with it. What if I decided that Santa and Christianity is reality and that atheism sucks eggs? Then what sort of game would you play on me next? You guys think that this stuff is some kind of fun and games that you play on your budding skeptical progeny? Screw you, mommy and daddy. I'm now a skeptic who is skeptical of skepticism. You guys are lunatic skeptics. I will not raise my own children the way you raised me!"

Of course this is all satire. But I do believe that children are incapable of the necessity of abstract thought that is the basis of meaningful skepticism. Skepticism is not a stand-alone position... it is a refutation of some other position. Kids don't play that sort of thing very well.
 
geni said:
Don't circumcise them.
Click to expand...

Funny you should mention that. Circumcision is a religious ritual. I was circumcised and so my penis has no foreskin. My parents really never were (nor are) religious. They were only going through the motions of tradition from their ancestry. But I never really have had a problem with what the result was. I'm an atheist skeptic with a cut dick. So what? Myself and my lovers have all been happy with my cut dick. I don't dream of having some other dick.

Maybe I'm a crappy skeptic who doesn't really resent what happened to me. I doubt that kids are going to resent having their parents pretend to be Santa or slip quarters under their pillow after losing a tooth.

Anyway, I'm curious about how skeptics plan to raise their children. They surely must face the same dilemmas and obstacles that any woo parent would. Eh?
 
I haven't visited in a while but this is a nice site for atheist parents:
http://atheistparents.org/forum/

Santa might be an ok thing to teach skeptic kids because it teaches that belief can be a comforting guide until it is time to finally let it go. God is the Santa of adults...

I tend to take many of my lessons from natural things and death is no exception. Death is a part of life, and I think this is a good lesson for children to learn as well as adults.

During a walk in the woods we came across a large tree that had fallen a year or two before. As we walked the length we saw that it was gradually decaying - returning to the forest and was now providing nurture for new growth. If trees lived forever there would be no new trees.

Another idea about death is that is is characterized by the stiff and unbending. It is a property of living things that they gain strength from adapting. This is a rich base for all kinds of important questions and ideas.

There are fascinating things to be learned almost everywhere. I have an Ortho gardening book on trees that includes a great discussion on how tree branches grow and form according to various stresses and environment. That would be good science investigation, and help introduce kids to ideas of evolution and that death is part of the natural course of life.

Religion can help at times of death and tragedy if is also a part of helping people through the various passages of life. If the priests just show up at the end it all seems rather pointless.

Likewise, it don't think atheism is particularly helpful if it only describes death as a time to greet the worms. There are times in our lives we go through times of 'death' and 'rebirth', and are changed. It is a parent's role to help understand those things as a part of life.
 
William Parcher said:
Maybe it's all a bad idea. Maybe the child reared by skeptics will resent and question why the parents ever did the Santa Thing. "Gee Mom & Dad, you guys know the Santa Thing is a farce... yet within your own skepticism you chose to expose me to it as if I were some kind of experiment to see how I might deal with it. What if I decided that Santa and Christianity is reality and that atheism sucks eggs? Then what sort of game would you play on me next? You guys think that this stuff is some kind of fun and games that you play on your budding skeptical progeny? Screw you, mommy and daddy. I'm now a skeptic who is skeptical of skepticism. You guys are lunatic skeptics. I will not raise my own children the way you raised me!"
Click to expand...
Yeah, I suppose my kid might say that to me.

If he were a dick.
 
Santa Claus is fun, and harmless. If anything the beleif in Santa teaches something to kids - how beleifs can be comforting, but false at the same time. How to let go of something that you've beleived for a long time.

I liked beleiving in Santa, but no ones going to grow up and still beleive. I remember when I was young (five or six?), I was trying to think of how I could find out of Santa was real or not. The best idea I came up with was waiting until I had grown up and lived on my own, to see if santa still brought me presents.
Needless to say it wasn't necessary.

There is a big difference between teaching religion and letting kids enjoy some harmless fantasy.
 
Roboramma said:
There is a big difference between teaching religion and letting kids enjoy some harmless fantasy.
Click to expand...
The only difference between theism and Santa Claus is that you disapprove of the prior and approve of the latter. That's all.
 
Melendwyr said:
The only difference between theism and Santa Claus is that you disapprove of the prior and approve of the latter. That's all.
Click to expand...

I am an atheist, as is my soon-to-be-ex-wife. We are doing the Santa thing and, even among theists, I think there is a big difference in the two. The main one being that one day they will admit that Santa isn't real. However, they will continue to say the God exists.

I think Santa is a good growing-up experience for children. It's sort of a rite of passage into adulthood. I think I read something in some old book about "leaving childish things behind."

I believe a child's life should have some fantasy to it, as long as the parents admit later that it is fantasy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom