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How do I know I'm not getting screwed?

bonnie

New Blood
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Jan 24, 2007
Messages
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I registered for a certificate program at Newton-Wellesley Hospital in Wellesley, MA. , as part of the New England School of Whole Health Education. The program is accredited by the Mass. DOE, Amer. Dietetic Association, Diabetes Education Assoc, and I did the research and they're not lying about it.

Since there are some courses included on mind-body medicine, I asked if the coursework or instructors included evidence of quantum physics proving anything, like in these movies, The Secret and What the Bleep.... The advisor assured me there was nothing new-agey, and all was evidence based science.

I received the reading list and the first book is Molecules of Emotion, Candace Pert; some others are by Weston Price and Mary Enig. I popped one of their DVDs in and an entire lecture was about the endocrine system and the chakras, but the emphasis was on the correlation between, for instance, the lowest chakra and the reproductive system (western scientific = eastern mystical).

I don't know enough about science OR new age quantum physics-y stuff to tell if the program is a load of crap or not. How does one sort this stuff out? What else do I ask?

Thanks!
 
Dr. Pert did real science way back when she found endorphin, but she has gotten a bit wooish more lately.
 
Yes, I see Prac. The stuff about so-called correlations between the Chakras and the endocrine system has no scientific basis whatsoever.
The Chakras are part of an ancient occult system. They are used in various types of meditation as a metaphorical system for examining personal meaning and emotional issues. Some people get some introspective out of this toy, but "balancing the chakras doesn't heal or cure any diseases.

What is the program you have registered for?
"Alternative Therapies?" Think twice and twice again!
Massage Therapy? Be warned it useally comes with a measure of pre-scientific and unscientific content.

Expect New Agey stuff. Nostrildumass predicts that at least one of your tachers will draw the Quantum Physics/Bleep/Secret card.

Think again before spending your money on this, unless you have money to burn on an interesting adventure in learning to seperate the wheat from the tares yourself.

Welcome to the JREF!
We'll be happy to supply you with some skeptical perspective.
 
Hyparxis,

It is a nutrition educator certificate program at Newton-Wellesley Hospital.

The thing is, in looking at the bulk of the program, it is standard nutrition science, the Krebs cycle, A&P, food chemistry, exercise physiology. Except, so far, it seems in the Endocrine System section, this stuff about the chakras is thrown in. There is a HUGE amount of material that I'll have to skim in a short period of time before the refund deadline.
 
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bonnie said:
Hyparxis,

It is a nutrition educator certificate program at Newton-Wellesley Hospital.
Click to expand...

Then you're going to get a mixed bag. Some Science, some psudo-science, and some Prac.
If you want a solid science foundation, I'd say look elsewhere.
The fact is that there is New Agey content via the teachers you mentioned.
 
bonnie said:
I registered for a certificate program at Newton-Wellesley Hospital in Wellesley, MA. , as part of the New England School of Whole Health Education. The program is accredited by the Mass. DOE, Amer. Dietetic Association, Diabetes Education Assoc, and I did the research and they're not lying about it.

Since there are some courses included on mind-body medicine, I asked if the coursework or instructors included evidence of quantum physics proving anything, like in these movies, The Secret and What the Bleep.... The advisor assured me there was nothing new-agey, and all was evidence based science.

I received the reading list and the first book is Molecules of Emotion, Candace Pert; some others are by Weston Price and Mary Enig. I popped one of their DVDs in and an entire lecture was about the endocrine system and the chakras, but the emphasis was on the correlation between, for instance, the lowest chakra and the reproductive system (western scientific = eastern mystical).

I don't know enough about science OR new age quantum physics-y stuff to tell if the program is a load of crap or not. How does one sort this stuff out? What else do I ask?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
You have already been lied to: giving you information about chakras and then saying it is all evidence-based. However, the lie may have been inadvertent since the person may be an ignoramus. As for accreditation- it may not mean anything.

I do know a bit about quantum physics, I taught rudimentary aspects in introductory chemistry in college. The movies you refer to are garbage. They cite quantum physics because most people have no idea what it is about and just accept what they are told. Anyone claiming to apply QM to medicine is selling snake oil.

What will your certificate certify? The only legitimate credential in nutrition is the RD (Registered Dietician).
 
"Molecules Of Emotion: The Science Behind Mind-Body Medicine" by Dr Candace B. Pert seems to be 100% woo. I suspect that there is no actually science in that book.

See:
http://www.amazon.com/Molecules-Emotion-Science-Mind-Body-Medicine/dp/0684846349

Read the comments and reviews with a critical eye, and note what people are saying.

As JJM and Hyparxis state, chakras are completely mystical. There is no science behind them, and no one has even proved that they exist, let alone produced peer-reviewed papers on how they work, what they do, how to manipulate them, etc., etc.

If this course is being taught at an accredited institution, you should be able to challenge the instrutors to provide scientific publishings to back up what they are teaching. Note that the book above does not fall into this category!

Cheers,
TGHO
 
It is quite simple really - anyone who talks about QM and isn't talking about physics is talking crap.
 
Okay - no one at this school (so far) is talking about quantum physics. The chakras aren't being referred to as science, but rather what the people way back called what we now know as the endocrine system. I will have to ask them, however, so what? Why should I care what the people way back called their body systems?

There are other certificates besides the ADA's RD (the ADA actually confirmed they accredit this program). I don't want to be an RD. The ADA still doesn't distringuish between a refined carb or fat and an altered one, though they have started to talk about trans fats.

This program does have good science behind it but, it seems like even at UCLA and NYU, they're throwing in stuff from the likes of Candace Pert, which dirties up the whole program, at least for me. It is going back.
 
bonnie said:
The chakras aren't being referred to as science, but rather what the people way back called what we now know as the endocrine system.
Click to expand...


The people telling you this are mistaken. Yes, when the chakras system was developed, people had absolutely no knowledge of the endocrine system. Our understanding of the endocrine system today does not match very well at all what has been said about the chakras. But as you state, it's a moot point. :)

bonnie said:
I will have to ask them, however, so what? Why should I care what the people way back called their body systems?

There are other certificates besides the ADA's RD (the ADA actually confirmed they accredit this program). I don't want to be an RD. The ADA still doesn't distringuish between a refined carb or fat and an altered one, though they have started to talk about trans fats.

This program does have good science behind it but, it seems like even at UCLA and NYU, they're throwing in stuff from the likes of Candace Pert, which dirties up the whole program, at least for me. It is going back.
Click to expand...

I hope you can find something suitable mate. Best of luck. I would suggest looking at night courses or part time adult classes actually run within or by a university. These tend to be vetted by the university itself, and so are pretty much solid science.

:)

Cheers,
TGHO
 
Hairy,

I'm finding this stuff thrown into many university programs. It is almost as if the subjective, mystical, new-agey stuff has already been accepted as "truth" amongst health educators, who probably don't take any classes in quantum physics. Damn - I'm really on the fence again!

A friend of mine at UCLA said a medical student friend of hers is taking a course in "what the bleep stuff.." I took a stress management course at the local community college here in northern NJ and it was loaded with Wayne Dyer, Gary Zukav (Seat of the Soul guy) and nonsense about quantum physics - both in the textbook and the lectures! Thing is, I like this nutrition educator program, I probably could take the "real" stuff and ignore the woo. The general public certainly has already been duped and perhaps in my own work, I could show them the errors of their thinking with "What the bleep we really know...."
 
Nah!!!!! It is going back. Too risky, too expensive ($5k) to even have to worry about this stuff.
 
Huh, it's disappointing that this new age guff is penetrating the universities over there in the US. Here in Australia it's pretty much confined to non-accredited institutions.

Definitely a good plan to send it back, $5k is a lot of money for this rubbish! :)

I do hope you find something more suitable.

Cheers,
TGHO
 
bonnie said:
Nah!!!!! It is going back. Too risky, too expensive ($5k) to even have to worry about this stuff.
Click to expand...

Shop around some more. Make sure you get a good program with a useful certificate.

You're right that this stuff is popping up all over. Frequently even nursing courses will include Therapeutic Touch, Alternative Medicine, and the like.
But it does give you an opportunity to learn to evaluate things for yourself. If you must encounter a bit of woo-woo in your education, meet it head on with some critical thinking.
 
bonnie said:
{snip} There are other certificates besides the ADA's RD (the ADA actually confirmed they accredit this program). I don't want to be an RD. The ADA still doesn't distringuish between a refined carb or fat and an altered one, though they have started to talk about trans fats.
Click to expand...
But, are any other certificates worth more than the paper they are printed on? If you are correct about the carbs and fats, it probably means there is no practical distinction. Purveyors of woo make things up so they have something to sell that nobody else does.

bonnie said:
This program does have good science behind it but, it seems like even at UCLA and NYU, they're throwing in stuff from the likes of Candace Pert, which dirties up the whole program, at least for me. It is going back.
Click to expand...
In your opening post you said you could not sort this stuff out, and asked for assistance. What are you calling good science now? Relating chakras and the endocrine system only sounds like science. It is true that many schools, even major ones, are incorporatinq quackery in their programs; that does not mean one should accept it.
 
bonnie said:
I registered for a certificate program at Newton-Wellesley Hospital in Wellesley, MA. , as part of the New England School of Whole Health Education. The program is accredited by the Mass. DOE, Amer. Dietetic Association, Diabetes Education Assoc, and I did the research and they're not lying about it.

Since there are some courses included on mind-body medicine, I asked if the coursework or instructors included evidence of quantum physics proving anything, like in these movies, The Secret and What the Bleep.... The advisor assured me there was nothing new-agey, and all was evidence based science.

I received the reading list and the first book is Molecules of Emotion, Candace Pert; some others are by Weston Price and Mary Enig. I popped one of their DVDs in and an entire lecture was about the endocrine system and the chakras, but the emphasis was on the correlation between, for instance, the lowest chakra and the reproductive system (western scientific = eastern mystical).

I don't know enough about science OR new age quantum physics-y stuff to tell if the program is a load of crap or not. How does one sort this stuff out? What else do I ask?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Medically speaking it should be referred to as a crash cart full of feces. Because it is, just to clarify.
 
fuelair said:
I don't know enough about science OR new age quantum physics-y stuff to tell if the program is a load of crap or not.
Click to expand...
Medically speaking it should be referred to as a crash cart full of feces. Because it is, just to clarify.
Click to expand...

I disagree. The proper medical term is "toxic megacolon".

Linda
 
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