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Homeopathy & kids

Thanz

Fuzzy Thinker
Joined
Jul 24, 2002
Messages
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My 7 month old baby is teething. As all parents know, this is not a happy time in a baby's life. Much pain and screaming. On the advice of a fellow mom, my wife purchased a homepathic remedy for teething pain. I have tried to point out that this "remedy" is actually water as the supposedly active ingredients have been diluted to almost non-existence. But here is the problem: it seems that it actually works.

Yes, that's right, it works. Screaming baby. Administer homeopathic remedy. Happy baby.

My question to you all: why wouls this be so? Why would there be a "placebo" effect in a 7 month old? Please do not try to tell me that studies have shown homepathy to be bunk, etc - I know all that. What I am interested in is any possible explanation for this working. I can't think of a more honest test subject than a teething baby.
 
Presumably teething pain is something that comes and goes?
Homeopathic remedies are always most 'effective' in conditions that are intermittent and sporadic.

How long does teething pain last? And is the worst of the pain at the start, then does it ease off?

Because it might well be that you have administered the homeopathic treatment at a time when the pain is easing anyway.

Also I think I have read that the behaviour of the parents will affect babies - if the mother is giving the child attention (while administering the remedy) and is calm then it might have a beneficial effect on the baby.

Finally, as another thought, is the remedy dropped directly on the teeth/gums? Because a nice cool drop of water might ease the discomfort.


ETA: Does it work every time it is administered? Or just sometimes?
Also, why not see if water works as well.
 
Ashles said:
Finally, as another thought, is the remedy dropped directly on the teeth/gums? Because a nice cool drop of water might ease the discomfort.

Even better if it has to be rubbed on. I remember reading that teething babies like pressure applied to the gums, and dislike negative pressure (such as that produced by sucking on a bottle or a nipple).
 
Rubbing something that is hurting confuses the pain signals and alleviates the discomfort - as anyone who has ever banged their shin will know. :)
 
Some answers -

The remedy comes in small little tubes - you break off one end ans squirt it in. It is at room temperature, and is not rubbed into the gums. It is akin to giving a little dropper of water.

Teething takes a long time. The pain may come and go, but usually in response to something - such as chewing on a teether, or being given medication. Think of the last time you had a bad toothache - it doesn't come and go on its own.

Finally - concrete example from this morning. Baby wakes up. In pain from teeth, but seems ok. Starts taking bottle. This really sets off pain - doesn't want to suck bottle, much screaming. Give some of this homeopathic stuff. Baby calms down, takes bottle no problem.

Does it work every time? I don't know from firsthand experience. My wife tells me it sure seems to work, and I have no reason to not believe her.
 
Thanz said:
Some answers -

The remedy comes in small little tubes - you break off one end ans squirt it in. It is at room temperature, and is not rubbed into the gums. It is akin to giving a little dropper of water.

From here
The discomfort that results from teething is due to the pressure exerted on the tissue in the mouth, called the periodontal membrane, as the teeth erupt. This discomfort may be eased by a cool object such as a firm rubber teething ring or a cold apple. Gently rubbing the gums with a cool, wet washcloth, or (until the teeth are right near the surface) a clean finger, can also help.
So the relative coolness of the water will help.
And it also seems that if your baby is chewing on the bottle it could itself act as an object to ease the discomfort.

Does it work every time? I don't know from firsthand experience. My wife tells me it sure seems to work, and I have no reason to not believe her.
You say that you haven't actually experienced it working firsthand? Have you seen this effect at all?

If your wife is already sympathetic to homeopathy (which she must be to a certain degree to have bought the treatment) then she may be more likely to report positive results.

It seems like just water applied in the same way would also yield the same results.
 
Also, is it actually homeopathic, or is it just labeled that?

Zicam cold remedy is marketed as hoemopathic, but the ingredient listed on the box (zinc) is of such an amount in each dose it doesn't really seem to be a true homeopathic product.
 
Does it work every time? I don't know from firsthand experience. My wife tells me it sure seems to work, and I have no reason to not believe her.

You say that you haven't actually experienced it working firsthand? Have you seen this effect at all?

I think he means he hasn't been there every time it was applied, so he doesn't know if it works on every apllication.

ie: wife applies when he's out-he can't observe the results, and may not even know it was applied.
 
I just had to de-lurk to offer my 2 pence worth on this as it's something i've meant to post for over a year (apologies for rambling but i hope it provides the context):

When my son was about 6 months and teething terribly (your own always suffers more than anyone elses!) my wife, in desperation, asked her midwife whether there were any effective alternatives to the standard teething gels on the market which didn't seem to work. The midwife said that some mothers she knew had tried a homeopathic remedy and that had seemed to work for them. My wife subsequently purchased the "homeopathic granules" with a view to trying them out.

She held off using it for as long as possible and then at about 2:30am, after being awake for some not inconsiderable time, she said that she wanted to try the homeopathic "medicine". At that time of the morning and having a son who'd been working opposite shifts through the night with his sister for the last 6 months perhaps my response could have been better.

I replied that if it made her feel better then i had no objection as in my view it certainly wouldn't have any side effects (ingredients listed below). My response, in hindsight, had missed a significant point. We were both desperate for sleep and had been for several months (teething had followed colic which had followed the 2 hourly feeding which had followed a lengthy labour culminating in surgery) and as parents we were fraught trying to help our son in any way to overcome the pain.

When you light the blue touch paper you should "retire to a safe distance" so the firework warning goes. I lit. When you release several months of pent up, desperate emotion you really should be on the end of a telephone or better still do it in writing....

... the "remedy" certainly stopped him crying as he struggled to take a breath with a mouthful of granulated milk product and he eventually did settle down about half an hour later. Was "Teetha (TM)" the answer?

Eventually, several days later, we both agreed that the homeopathic option had made no difference (although they did make him gag) and she went back to using the teething gels that i'd continued to use (effectively so i perceived!).

The lessons I drew from this:

a) desperate mothers are searching for anything that will help their loved ones. Discussing what a 6C potency actually means during the early hours of the morning may result in a quick trip to casualty.

b) homeopathic remedies, or "branded placebos", work more on the emotions of the person administering them than they do the conditions they are alledged to cure.

c) filling a babies mouth with granulated milk products will stop crying for about as long as it takes them to draw a long fresh breath.... then they'll let you know what they think (however, this increased intensity of crying may make them even more tired so they may actually fall asleep quicker - point scored for homeopathic remedy?).

d) teething is horrific for everyone concerned but it does end. Sometimes bouts stop after a few minutes others will leave you with dark bags under your eyes for days.

Enough rambling. I've got that one off my chest. Lunch time is over. Back to the grindstone.

Thanks for reading this far :-)

PS I've always noted that the midwife didn't actually say "this works". I wonder how many other health care professionals will use homeopathy/ placebos in the same way.








Each 300mg sachet contains 6c homeopathic ptency of Chamomilla (also contains lactose, xylitol and starch)
 
Someone gave us that homeopathic teething medicine when our twins were born. I threw it into the trash immediately.

Seven months old, Thanz. Are you just assuming each incident of crying is due to teething? Babies cry for a number reasons. Hunger, colic, too hot, too cold, wanting attention, tired, not tired and don't want to go to sleep right now even though its midnight so take me out of this crib NOW!!!

We found most of the problems with our twins crying were dietary related. Any recent changes in diet could bind them up and cause stomach pain. Not burping after feeding could cause gastric distress. All kinds of things.

Some pains disappear when moved from a horizontal to a vertical position. Just that simple.

Think about what other actions are occurring while administering this "medicine." Is the baby being re-wrapped/bundled? Is it cuddled and patted on the back? Is it carried around for a while or put into a new activity that it wasn't involved in when it was crying? Any of these could be the explanation for the cessation of hostilities.

So many variables.

My wife likes to medicate our kids at the drop of a hat. I, on the other hand, resist medications of all types with every fiber of my being. I think I get better results determining the cause rather than treating what I think are the symptoms. Some cuddling and patting and attention giving are the best medicine and I have found them to be more effective than anything in a bottle or pill. TLC.
 
AlH said:
Also, is it actually homeopathic, or is it just labeled that?

Zicam cold remedy is marketed as hoemopathic, but the ingredient listed on the box (zinc) is of such an amount in each dose it doesn't really seem to be a true homeopathic product.
It seems no one take notice of this.
I'm surprised.

I would have thought this is rather important, that non-homeopathic product is marketed as a homeopathic product.

Does it indicate that homeopathic have secretly realised that they need to "innovate" and is changing tact to actually put in active ingredient?

Danger point:
(1) At some point "Homeopathic" product will be effective. (not because of homeopathic theory but because of active ingredient. but then because the packaging indicate "homeopathic", it implies the effectiveness of a doubious science).

(2) At some point sceptic stunts of "drinking poison" to disprove homeopathy become not possible. (like the one MRC_Hans did recently)

(3) At some point "homeopathic remedies" can have more than one meaning. (it's like twisting black to become white).
 
Two questions:

1) Is your report reliable? I mean, have you, first hand, experienced it working consistently?

2) What is the listed content? ..As several people have remarked, some ofg the stuff that is labelled "homeopathic" out there, actually has a number of active ingredients.

On placebo: So you open some cotainer and squirt something into the mouth of the baby? That is bound to have at least startled him (or her?) the first time. Now, teething (and a lot of other things that make babies scream) is not that horribly painful; as an adult, you'd probably just consider it a minor discomfort. However, screaming is really the only mode of communication open to a baby, apart from grinning, salivating and chuckling. So, they scream at discomfort. Unfortunately, screaming does not make you feel very comfortable, and you go into a vicious circle where you just feel lousy and keep screaming, with little regard to any original cause. Break the circle, and the screaming stops. This is such a relief that baby might relax and fall asleep, even if the pain in the gums that started the screaming is really still there. Having raised two babies and baby-sat three more regularly, I can attest to the fact that any odd diversion can often put an end to a "screaming session". Now, having tried it a couple of times, your baby, although the novelty has worn off, has gotten used to relax after the "treatment". At least it is a possible explanation.

Finally: Have you tried it out? Try it yourself. Does it have any effect on you? How does it taste?

Hans
 
I share your pain on this one Thanz! My daughter is now 18 months old and is just getting her back molars now. Those who haven't been through this kind of thing with children will never understand.

It's our first child and the one thing I've learned is that babies go through 'phases'. For the first 6 months of my daughter's life she suffered from colic and didn't sleep for longer than 30 mins, day or night. We tried every remedy under the sun and nothing worked. Then one night we tried a baby antacid product and she slept for 8 hours straight! Ever since then she has slept soundly every night.

We withdrew the antacid product about a week later, mainly because we didn't want her to take it for an extended period. No change - she kept on sleeping well.

Was it the antacid that did the trick? Who knows, we were just so happy to be able to sleep for the first time in months that we didn't care. I think that it was probably just coincidental - the end of one phase and the beginning of another.

When you are a parent, even a skeptical one, objectivity goes out the window.
 
I also in desperation,used Bach flower remedies (i know..blush,blush) for a child that had almost continual nightmares. They appeared to work. in hindsight, its impossible to say whether she would have slept at that moment or not........also....perhaps the brandy used as a preservative helped....my god...what have i done !!!!
 
Luke T. said:
Someone gave us that homeopathic teething medicine when our twins were born. I threw it into the trash immediately.

Seven months old, Thanz. Are you just assuming each incident of crying is due to teething? Babies cry for a number reasons. Hunger, colic, too hot, too cold, wanting attention, tired, not tired and don't want to go to sleep right now even though its midnight so take me out of this crib NOW!!!
This is our second baby and I am well aware that there are a multitude of reasons for babies crying. What I also know (and of course you can't, not having met my child) is that she is generally extremely well natured and does not cry without a reason. So, when she is crying, and I see her red inflamed gums, and that she is cutting 3 teeth at once - it is not a huge leap to realize that she is having teething pain (along with other "symptoms" like tugging on an ear, excessive drooling, etc.) So, I am not assuming that each crying incident is due to teething - I am only referring to the ones I know are teething rather than tired, hungry, bored, etc.

Think about what other actions are occurring while administering this "medicine." Is the baby being re-wrapped/bundled? Is it cuddled and patted on the back? Is it carried around for a while or put into a new activity that it wasn't involved in when it was crying? Any of these could be the explanation for the cessation of hostilities.

So many variables.
Indeed. But the incident that I saw did not involve these variables. She was in her high chair the whole time. The only change was the homeopathic "medicine". Which is what prompted me to post.
 
MRC_Hans said:
Two questions:

1) Is your report reliable? I mean, have you, first hand, experienced it working consistently?
I have only seen it work, first hand, once. I have only seen it administered by itself, first hand, once. The other information I have is from my wife, whom I have no reason to doubt. However, I also cannot answer the other details around the other times it is given.

2) What is the listed content? ..As several people have remarked, some ofg the stuff that is labelled "homeopathic" out there, actually has a number of active ingredients.
It is definitely homeopathic. It lists three "active" ingredients, one of which is Chamillia (sp?). For those 3 ingredients, they are listed as 5CH for 2, and 9CH for the other. The only other thing is distilled water.

On placebo: So you open some cotainer and squirt something into the mouth of the baby? That is bound to have at least startled him (or her?) the first time. Now, teething (and a lot of other things that make babies scream) is not that horribly painful; as an adult, you'd probably just consider it a minor discomfort. However, screaming is really the only mode of communication open to a baby, apart from grinning, salivating and chuckling. So, they scream at discomfort. Unfortunately, screaming does not make you feel very comfortable, and you go into a vicious circle where you just feel lousy and keep screaming, with little regard to any original cause. Break the circle, and the screaming stops. This is such a relief that baby might relax and fall asleep, even if the pain in the gums that started the screaming is really still there. Having raised two babies and baby-sat three more regularly, I can attest to the fact that any odd diversion can often put an end to a "screaming session". Now, having tried it a couple of times, your baby, although the novelty has worn off, has gotten used to relax after the "treatment". At least it is a possible explanation.
I suppose it is possible. I'll never really know for sure. But from the look of the gums, it was really sore. She doesn't scream for no reason. My belief is that it is not a placebo effect, but how can I really know?

Finally: Have you tried it out? Try it yourself. Does it have any effect on you? How does it taste?

Hans
Haven't tried it. Have really seen no need to - I can accept that intellectually it is just water.
 
Thanz said:
*snip*
Haven't tried it. Have really seen no need to - I can accept that intellectually it is just water.
Then how can you suspect that it works?

However, my point is that it might NOT be just water. OK, so they did not list any content other than homeopathic, but there are cases on record where homeopathic (and other alt. meds) actually held quite potent, conventional meds. The trick is that it is almost never the drug substance that makes a drug expensive, it is the quality assurance, the registering, etc. So call it homeopathic, slip some local anaestesizer (sp?) in it, and sell it at a huge profit.

There is a recent case of a Chinese "herbal" ointment against eczema that held a quite strong hydrocortizone preparation.

.... Yes, there are people who do that.

Hans
 
I can think of another possible explanation. I'm assuming you've tried conventional remedies (like tooth gels and stuff). Maybe they are aggravating the problem. A cool drop of water (room temperature 75 degree water vs. 98 degree mouth) might feel better than some tooth gel. I've recently had some medical problems and am experiencing a lot of mouth pain. I have discovered that drinking room temperature bottled water makes my mouth feel better (cold water kind of hurts).

Or hey maybe you have a claim at the million. But double blind testing your child in pain is going to be difficult (and probably kind of cruel) so you might want to pass.

LLH
 

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