Hobby hypocrisy lobby

[Trakar]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/antiabortion-company-hobby-lobby-invests-in-contraception-makers/

"This is the height of hypocrisy," Cecile Richards, president of Planned Parenthood Action Fund, said in a statement to The Associated Press. "Hobby Lobby's CEO wants to deny the company's 13,000 employees access to affordable birth control, while investing in pharmaceutical companies that make it."

It's no small share, either: the $73 million represents three-quarters of the retirement plan's total assets, Mother Jones notes.

So which companies are being supported by Hobby Lobby's 401k investments? They include Pfizer (PFE), which makes the drugs Cytotec and Prostin E2, which are used to induce abortions, and Bayer, which makes the Mirena and Skyla IUDs.

The issue highlights a problem that has created headaches for other businesses: what happens when an institution's investment portfolio directs funds to businesses antithetical to its beliefs, or those of one of its constituents? In the case of Hobby Lobby, its owners, the Green family, have "deeply held religious convictions ... that life begins at conception."

IOW, if it interferes with our political beliefs our religious beliefs will trump what we demand from the law, if it is a matter of our investments, however, our deeply held religious beliefs aren't as important.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

What idiots. Bet they hadn't given a thought to cleaning out the closet skeletons before embarking on this politics masquerading as religion quest.

 

[MG1962]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/antiabortion-company-hobby-lobby-invests-in-contraception-makers/



IOW, if it interferes with our political beliefs our religious beliefs will trump what we demand from the law, if it is a matter of our investments, however, our deeply held religious beliefs aren't as important.

Well there are two issues here - Did the investment company every get express instructions on how or what to invest in.

And according to the lawyer representing the company in the case against the government, there are only 4 contraceptives out of 20 they are protesting about. Apparently the other 16 are fine

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

MJ: Hobby Lobby's Hypocrisy: The Company's Retirement Plan Invests in Contraception Manufacturers

Not like they didn't have easy options:

Similar options exist for companies that want to practice what's sometimes called faith-based investing. To avoid supporting companies that manufacture abortion drugs—or products such as alcohol or pornography—religious investors can turn to a cottage industry of mutual funds that screen out stocks that religious people might consider morally objectionable. The Timothy Plan and the Ave Maria Fund, for example, screen for companies that manufacture abortion drugs, support Planned Parenthood, or engage in embryonic stem cell research. Dan Hardt, a Kentucky financial planner who specializes in faith-based investing, says the performances of these funds are about the same as if they had not been screened. But Hobby Lobby's managers either were not aware of these options or chose not to invest in them.

 

[thaiboxerken]

They also source plenty of their products from China, which has mandatory abortions for most citizens.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Well there are two issues here - Did the investment company every get express instructions on how or what to invest in.

Why does this matter? Are Hobby Lobby owners idiots incapable of checking where their investments are going if they actually mattered as opposed to this right wing religious objection facade?

And according to the lawyer representing the company in the case against the government, there are only 4 contraceptives out of 20 they are protesting about. Apparently the other 16 are fine

Yes and the same objected to BC methods are the same one's they invest in when they aren't pretending to be religiously offended:

Hobby Lobby 401(k) employee retirement plan held more than $73 million in mutual funds with investments in companies that produce emergency contraceptive pills, intrauterine devices, and drugs commonly used in abortions. Hobby Lobby makes large matching contributions to this company-sponsored 401(k).

Several of the mutual funds in Hobby Lobby's retirement plan have stock holdings in companies that manufacture the specific drugs and devices that the Green family, which owns Hobby Lobby, is fighting to keep out of Hobby Lobby's health care policies: the emergency contraceptive pills Plan B and Ella, and copper and hormonal intrauterine devices.

 

[Trakar]

Well there are two issues here - Did the investment company every get express instructions on how or what to invest in.

And according to the lawyer representing the company in the case against the government, there are only 4 contraceptives out of 20 they are protesting about. Apparently the other 16 are fine

Well, aside from the fact that the four they oppose are not abortifactants and the companies they are invested in do make direct abortifactants, the statements they made to the court assert as part of their need to assert their personal religious convictions ahead of the health decisions of their employees, they say: "All of the family members have agreed to operate all aspects of Hobby Lobby and their other family businesses according to their deeply held religious convictions."

 

[theprestige]

I firmly believe that it is the right of every human being to wallow in their own hypocrisy, free from government intervention, even when they are transacting business with other human beings, regardless of how offensive that hypocrisy might be to some, unless there is some clear and compelling government interest in showing up that hypocrisy, or enforcing its will upon that human being.

I have not seen any rational argument that the owners of Hobby Lobby are anything other than human beings. Nor have I seen any rational argument that the government has any compelling interest in interfering in their hypocrisy.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

You can't claim religion is the reason you want exemption from the law when it is obvious you are lying.

You can think all you want there should be no laws restricting freedom, but the problem is no man or woman is an island. In this case Hobby Lobby wants to deprive employees of their rights.

And if you have no health insurance mandate, people who decline insurance end up increasing health care costs for the rest of us when they go to the ED and don't pay their bill.

If the right wing didn't object to a single payer, we could have eliminated the insurance companies from the loop and so on and so on. It's a lined up row of dominos.

So tough luck, you can't have your selfish way because it costs someone else something.

 

[Brainster]

It has invested in funds that then invest in drug companies like Pfizer. No big deal. I remember my dad remarking that he would never invest in cigarette companies. I checked his mutual funds one day and found out several of them had investments in big tobacco.

 

[SezMe]

I have not seen any rational argument that the owners of Hobby Lobby are anything other than human beings. Nor have I seen any rational argument that the government has any compelling interest in interfering in their hypocrisy.

Indeed, but that bypasses the issue. It is not the owner's beliefs that are at issue, it is the company's beliefs. Or, more accurately, whether a company can even have beliefs.

A corporation exists to shield an individual's assets from those of the corporation so that, for example, if the corporation goes belly up, the owner's individual assets are protected. Hobby Lobby wants to preserve that financial shield but, at the same time, wants to penetrate that shield regarding religion. At this point, the government does have a right to question that hypocrisy.

 

[daredelvis]

It has invested in funds that then invest in drug companies like Pfizer. No big deal. I remember my dad remarking that he would never invest in cigarette companies. I checked his mutual funds one day and found out several of them had investments in big tobacco.

Seems irrelevant. Was he suing to prevent the smoking of tobacco?

Daredelvis

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It has invested in funds that then invest in drug companies like Pfizer. No big deal. I remember my dad remarking that he would never invest in cigarette companies. I checked his mutual funds one day and found out several of them had investments in big tobacco.

Feel free to explain why the owners of Hobby Lobby give a rat's ass about what is in employees' health insurance but have no concerns about what's in employees' pension plans?

 

[Upchurch]

Is I pointed out in another thread, the company isn't buying the employees' contraception. It's buying their insurance. Whether the insurance company pays for an employee's contraception is none of the employer's business, by law.

It seems to me that what a company invests in is far more their business than trying to control their employees' medical treatments.

 

[Polaris]

Seems my boycott of Hobby Lobby isn't in danger of stopping any time soon.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I don't care if their religious objection is sincere or not. It should not be their right to impose their religious restrictions onto their employees.

 

[Upchurch]

I don't care if their religious objection is sincere or not. It should not be their right to impose their religious restrictions onto their employees.

I don't care what their objections are. Employers should not have any say in what medical treatments their employees may or may not have. It is none of their business.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I don't care what their objections are. Employers should not have any say in what medical treatments their employees may or may not have. It is none of their business.

+1

I don't know why Conservatives always want to give more power to the wealthy.

 

[Unabogie]

+1

I don't know why Conservatives always want to give more power to the wealthy.

Because they think that wealthy people are only wealthy because they are smarter, work harder, and are more moral than the poors.

What I really don't get is how many poor people buy into this gratuitous insult against themselves.

 

[wareyin]

Because they think that wealthy people are only wealthy because they are smarter, work harder, and are more moral than the poors.

What I really don't get is how many poor people buy into this gratuitous insult against themselves.

The poor people I have talked to who believe this always think that they are going to be rich someday, even if they are in their 60's and have worked hard their whole lives without becoming wealthy yet. Obviously, because they work hard, being poor is only a temporary set-back, to their way of thinking.