Help Requested In Helping Quixtar/Amway Friend

Elektrix

Critical Thinker
E
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
295
Hi all,

I'm hoping someone can help me out. An old high school friend of mine gave me a call recently and told me he was in town, and he wanted to meet with me to talk to me about a new business he was starting up (I'm in the Internet industry, so I figured he was going to just ask for my opinion or advice on a new venture).

To make a long story short, I met with him and quickly discovered what he was selling was Quixtar. I tried to be very polite and let him go through his presentation, and then told him I'd definitely think about it. He wanted me to go to a Quixtar meeting and talk to someone he knows there.

Anyway...... I was aware that Quixtar was part of Amway, and I'm generally aware of the problems with MLM's. At the time though I didn't have much information, and even if I did, I frankly didn't want to get into a debate or arguement with him.

He definitely seems to be fully absorbed though into the Quixtar concept, and he was gushing about how the system worked, how all you had to do was buy stuff you'd buy anyway, and how quickly you would be able to get to a point of making $150,000 a year by building your network of IBO's.

He admitted to me that he wasn't making much of anything yet because he is still new at this and I guess only has one downline...... but he seems utterly convinced it is a good idea.

After I got home I went back to some sites like http://www.amquix.info/ and http://mlmblog.typepad.com/ and I am very convinced that I don't want any part of this.

I could definitely recognize some of the patterns and signs that one would expect to see..... i.e. when he told me about how great the Quixtar products are, how amazing they are, etc.

The thing that really surprised me about this though is that he is incredibly intelligent, and in high school I was on the debate team with him. But in this case, he seemed to be completely unaware of the problems with MLM's.... or at the very least, he wasn't aware of any problems with Quixtar.

But I'm also troubled because I don't want to just leave this at telling him "no thanks". I feel bad that he is at the beginning stages of this, and when I read about most people's ultimate experiences with Quixtar, it really makes me want to try and at least tell him he should reconsider this.

But I'm worried about that, because he is so high on this company right now that I can't help but feel any slightly negative thing I say to him about Quixtar could end up really blowing up.

I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice on how I should handle this. I don't want to simply say "Sorry, no thanks." and then know that he is seemingly getting suckered and brainwashed by these Quixtar people...... but I'm also kind of worried about saying "Sorry, I have been reading up on Quixtar, and I do not think it is a good idea. I hope you can take a look at the information on this site and really think about all of the facts involved".

I mean, I guess my concern is that he has been absorbed enough into this that any negative info about them will be dismissed.... but on the other hand, I know he is very intelligent and I think he would at least potentially be able to see this for what it is if he'd read it. But I can't help thinking the Quixtar stuff prepares people for that.

So, anyway.... I'm just really stuck. I want to help him here because he's my friend, but I just don't know how to go about doing it.

Any advice anyone could share with me would be immensely appreciated.

-Elektrix
 
Well, Elektrix you must deal with this as if he were your beloved brother or father and what would you do then?
You must bring to his notice the downfalls you have spotted. At least if you do and then he doesn't pay attention that is his prerogative.
 
Maybe you could help refine his business plans and set his expectations about reward levels. Relatively recently, I set up a business and was suprised how much you have to turn over to clear costs and (relatively) little you earn per hour.

Help him work through his business plan and then.....

There's this bit on the skepdic site where average returns are discussed. Maybe you could feed some of the numbers in this into the conversation.

http://skepdic.com/amway.html
 
Thanks.... I guess this is where I'm stuck, I know what I SHOULD do..... just as much as if I had a friend who was on drugs or in a cult I would do everything I could to try and help them out of it (even knowing that they would probably react badly to anyone telling them there was something wrong with whatever they were hooked into).

I'm scared of what might happen I guess, because I don't know how far gone he is in this.

Anyway....... I will try and come up with a way to at least try and get him to consider some of the realities of this. I am worried that they may have brainwashed him to a point though that he won't be able to look at it reasonably though.

but I guess it is the most I can do.

-Elektrix
 
Perhaps you could warn him about how much everyone dislikes and jokes about Amway sellers. Ask if he really wants to open himself up to that kind of ridicule.
 
Originally posted by Elektrix d talk to someone he knows there.

Anyway...... I was aware that Quixtar was part of Amway, and I'm generally aware of the problems with MLM's.
Click to expand...


I researched this in depth a while back because I was in a simlar situation as you.

AFAIK, Quixtar was never just a "part" of Amway, it in fact is Amway after a name change.
 
Tricky said:
Perhaps you could warn him about how much everyone dislikes and jokes about Amway sellers. Ask if he really wants to open himself up to that kind of ridicule.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if I want to go into that approach (especially since it seems like that logic could be used against legitimate purposes....... i.e. say I have a friend who is going to convert to islam, and I tell him he shouldn't do it because so many people dislike and joke about muslims). The fact that many people dislike and joke about them in and of itself is not an argument I want to use.

Btw, he is definitely Quixtar, and he seemed surprised when I knew Quixtar was what used to be Amway (he acknowledged that they came up with Quixtar because of the negative perceptions people had about Amway).

-Zadillo
 
Re: Re: Help Requested In Helping Quixtar/Amway Friend

wert said:


I researched this in depth a while back because I was in a simlar situation as you.

AFAIK, Quixtar was never just a "part" of Amway, it in fact is Amway after a name change.
Click to expand...

Yeah, sorry, I mis-spoke. meant to say that Amway officially became Quixtar in 2001.

-Zadillo
 
I and a group of friends (isn't that the way it always works) got involved with Amway a while back.

Amway (or whatever it has morphed into) has their mesmerizing routine down to a science. Once your friend has bought into it there isn't much you can do. My suggestion is to sit back, don't buy in, don't buy his products, and let the infection run it's course. As soon as your friend figures out that he won't be making any real money, he will let it drop naturally. Attempts to try to force that conclusion externally will be met with great resistance.

Amway (Quixtar ) sits comfortably on the top of the pyramid, and that is where all the money flows. Most people get the picture pretty fast. Those that don't, aren't subject to logic anyway.

In many ways this is a good thing for your friend. After the nonsense has worked it's way out of his sysytem, there is a good chance that he will become much more skeptical in general. That would be a good time to introduce him to concepts in critical thinking.
 
I was suckered into amway a few years ago, under yet another name, (can't remember it) it took only a week or two before I realised it would take ALL of my spare time schmoozing everyone I had ever even said sorry to for bumping into them on the street to get enough people downstream to make any money at all. I now realise I did not, nor ever could, know enough people to make it work for me.

I suspect once your friend realised the massive commitment involved he will leave it, most people need some downtime to just watch TV or play the computer, and when he realises he won't get any watch how fast he goes, I'd start to worry only if he sticks with it too long.

EDITED TO ADD:

Like Apoger said, I think that was just one more step for me on my way to be a little more critical about what people were telling me.
 
Best part of the skepdic.com article, I think.
You get ten people then they get ten people, ect...

10
100
1,000
10,000
100,000
1,000,000
10,000,000
100,000,000
1,000,000,000
10,000,000,000

We're only at level 10. The population of earth is around 6,000,000,000.

I'll shoe his horse if he wants, only 1 cent for the first nail...
 
Helping Quixtar/Amway Friend

Here is a web page from "MLMWATCH" an excellent source of information on multi level marketing scams. This page details the basic business fallacies regarding these deeply flawed business models. I think that your approach to your friend should be entirely businesslike. You will just give him your business person's view of his proposal in a straightforward unemotional way. The straightforward unemotional approach is anathema to MLM operators.

By the way. You might tell you friend that the source of this bit of advise is a staff attorney with a state consumer protection agency.

http://www.mlmwatch.org/01General/10lies.html
 
Since I assume he's asking you to also join up in this venture, this provides you you're easy out. Bring up the points given on the different websites as personal concerns. Say, "I'm not comfortable with this venture due to these points here and here. How does Quixtar address these criticisms?". Its an honest and fair question and if he doesn't know the answer, ask him to go check the sites, and check with Quixtar and see if he can't find some answers. Then state that its not something your comfortable/interested in.

I don't think you can account for all possible ways in which he might become hostile to you attacking his new sacred cow. And on some level don't worry about it. Present the criticism. If he really decides to take it the wrong way there's not much you can do, but at least you know you tried.
 
Damn.... this sucks... I don't really have any advice for your friend, but I have some advice for you: Be very careful. People involved in MLM have many times completely cut off any relationships with friends or family who would object their "business plans" and would try to talk some logic to them. In fact, they tell them to do this in the meetings. He might start seeing you as an obstacle, a negative influence... be very careful...
 
People will probably think me cold for such a suggestion, but whatever. Its also important to realize just how important his friendship is to you. It sounds as though you two have not corresponded in several years, or even perhaps since High School. If he's just an old buddy, or a casual acquaintance now, how risky is it incurring his potential ire and/or withdrawal of friendship? If you will not be able to put up with his ongoing conversations about the wonders of Quixtor or whatever, and he's just a casual friend now anyway, I say stick the questions to him (in a polite, but not wishy washy way) and see how he reacts.

If he over-reacts and doesn't speak to you again, well then, weigh how much you'd actually care. Who knows, in 3 years when you see him again, perhaps he'll thank you, or at the very least talk to you. Or perhaps he won't over-react at all.
 
voidx said:
People will probably think me cold for such a suggestion, but whatever. Its also important to realize just how important his friendship is to you. It sounds as though you two have not corresponded in several years, or even perhaps since High School. If he's just an old buddy, or a casual acquaintance now, how risky is it incurring his potential ire and/or withdrawal of friendship? If you will not be able to put up with his ongoing conversations about the wonders of Quixtor or whatever, and he's just a casual friend now anyway, I say stick the questions to him (in a polite, but not wishy washy way) and see how he reacts.
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I was thinking the same thing, except i am perhaps a bit colder. If, in fact, this guy called you out of the blue after a prolonged period of no contact just to talk to you about this business opportunity, I wouldn't worry too much about his "friendship". He may just be trying to scam you, and he knows that Amway is a bogus plan but wants to try and sign up as many people as he can to start rolling in the money.

In short, if a friend that you have lost contact with calls you only to sign you up for Amway, are they really a friend?
 
Thanz said:

I was thinking the same thing, except i am perhaps a bit colder. If, in fact, this guy called you out of the blue after a prolonged period of no contact just to talk to you about this business opportunity, I wouldn't worry too much about his "friendship". He may just be trying to scam you, and he knows that Amway is a bogus plan but wants to try and sign up as many people as he can to start rolling in the money.

In short, if a friend that you have lost contact with calls you only to sign you up for Amway, are they really a friend?
Click to expand...
Exactly, and conversely, is a friend that over-reacts to some very justified questioning of his MLM scheme and never talks to you again, really much of a loss?
 
I've got a friend who has been in Amway for over ten years and still hasn't done well with it. He has a regular day job and does Amway at night. The best way to help someone get out is to catch them when they have just gotten in, otherwise it's like trying to get someone to leave their religion.

I would ask him how much research he has done regarding people who have not been happy with their Amway experience. When says none, hand him some printouts from the web that deal with people who have had a negative experience with the company. There are tons of info of this variety on the web.

The biggest secret is that the people making money in Amway are making 50 to 75 percent of their money by selling books and tapes (business tools) to their downline. They buy tapes for less than a buck and sell them for five or six dollars. Tell him to add up all the costs involved for a year, the books (book of the month), tapes (tape of the week, two if he is a go-getter), meeting fees (weekly), babysitter fees, wear and tear on the car (about .35 cents per mile), rally fees (four times a year, usually out of state somewhere, at least a few hundred per rally), not to mention the countless hours of his free time he will waste.

They always tell people it's just a few hours a week, but it turns out to be an everyday hobby. I've read thousands of pages on the web about Amway, it's amazing how they can get people to change their life in just a few weeks.
 
Apoger and SquishyDave have got it right. In most cases, "the infection will run its course." One of two things will likely happen (although one more likely than the other): he might make a couple bucks and stay in it longer than expected, or he will quickly realize how hard it is to make it work and just give it up. But like El Greco said, be careful what you say. Your best bet might be to only decline to join and not to criticize the venture, but with one exception, as William H. astutely pointed out. The only thing I would caution him against is spending too much money on "business tools" like tapes and such. Some of the smaller MLMs might not put as much emphasis on these, but in Amway, business tools are a cash cow and generally where the real money is (for the corporation, that is, or those near the top). I tried an MLM briefly (Melaleuca), and the ironic thing was that when I would talk to people about it, they didn't want to join, but would often want to buy some of the products! That's not how it's supposed to work! I quit because I never got anyone joined up. Luckily, I don't think I put more than about $50 into the whole venture. One other thing I've since heard about MLMs (from people who have been in them) is that the hard work comes in trying to maintain your downline. Even if you get people signed up, the attrition rate is so high that maintaining the downline will rapidly consume more of your time. New recruits rarely take this into consideration. They just assume that everyone they sign up will stay signed up (and will either sell products or sign more people up), so the numbers for how many you need in your downline don't sound so unattainable. Often they aren't--they are just unmaintainable.

As a sidenote, I'll bet very few people realize that Avon and Tupperware are actually MLMs. The difference is that they have such strong product lines and by now are so well established that people make money by actually selling the stuff. If you happen to get someone to join the company, so much the better but they are still MLMs. The business model is still there; it just isn't as up front.
 
Thanks everyone, I appreciate your advice. I think I am just going to decline it, and only go into more detail on why if he really asks me what I didn't like about it.

Btw, this is definitely one of the ones where the tapes and other materials are a big part of it. It is "Brit World Wide", which is apparently one of the big Amway strands, and they make a big deal about selling and buying his motivational tapes, etc. to go along with it (they apparently also raised the price of the tapes to $7 each recently).

Hopefully my friend will realize what this is all about before he gets too far into it. I am just worried that he might do something crazy like quit his job and try to dedicate his life full-time to it. He's only spending 10 hours a week on it so far, but I'm worried they could brainwash him into doing more.

-Elektrix
 
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