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Hell freezing over. NRA and the RKBA.

Ranb

Penultimate Amazing
Joined
Jul 25, 2003
Messages
11,313
Location
WA USA
Back in 2009 when I was first beginning to push for a change in Washington State law to allow registered silencer use, I contacted the NRA for advice but I never heard back from them. After Washington state law was changed to allow registered silencer use on firearms, I had a chance to talk to an NRA representative and discuss silencer use by hunters. The NRA was working to change the law in Montana so that hunters would use them.

It seems that the NRA is finally taking an interest in firearms that are not in the mainstream.

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?id=474&issue=021
The Maxim Silencer Company opened its doors more than a century ago.

The less noise a gun produces, the less likely a shooter is to flinch just before the shot breaks. Felt recoil is another contributor to flinch and the weight of suppressors helps to reduce this. More accurate shooting in the field means fewer wounded and lost animals--a good thing for hunters and wildlife.

Ranb
 
But, but, but, if silencers are legal then someone could put it on a BAR, mow down an entire gathering of old ladies playing Bingo, and no one would know!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
 
If that is the price me must pay, then so be it. :)

Ranb

Do you really think that silencers are necessary to make hunters better shooters. ??

Is the military so wrong to simply put in a dummy round in a clip to detect and correct flinching in about 2 easy lessons

Do all expert shooters according to your argument now need silencers ??

Even the NRA might find itself hard to help such hunters now days.
I mean what kind of sport is it where the two main causes of injuries are falling out of trees and shooting each other.

Before you get twisted underwear, I understand your interest in changing the law.
I am a military veteran, long time NRA supporter and lifetime/current deer hunter.
But your argument does not do much to engender my agreement.
 
If that is the price me must pay, then so be it. :)

Ranb

Do you really think that silencers are necessary to make hunters better shooters. ??

Is the military so wrong to simply put in a dummy round in a clip to detect and correct flinching in about 2 easy lessons
Do all expert shooters according to your argument now need silencers ??

Even the NRA might find itself hard to help such hunters now days.
I mean what kind of sport is it now becoming where the two main causes of injuries are falling out of trees and shooting each other.
And the VP of the USA shoots his bird hunting companion in the face

Silencers will correct none of current hunting problems.

Before you get twisted underwear, I understand your interest in changing the law.
I am a military veteran, long time NRA supporter and lifetime/current deer hunter.
But your argument does not do much to engender my agreement.
 
Do you really think that silencers are necessary to make hunters better shooters. ??

Is the military so wrong to simply put in a dummy round in a clip to detect and correct flinching in about 2 easy lessons
Do all expert shooters according to your argument now need silencers ??

Even the NRA might find itself hard to help such hunters now days.
I mean what kind of sport is it now becoming where the two main causes of injuries are falling out of trees and shooting each other.
And the VP of the USA shoots his bird hunting companion in the face

Silencers will correct none of current hunting problems.

Before you get twisted underwear, I understand your interest in changing the law.
I am a military veteran, long time NRA supporter and lifetime/current deer hunter.
But your argument does not do much to engender my agreement.

No, no and no.

I did not make any argument in my first post, I was merely noting how the NRA has finally taken notice of the fact that registered silencers are useful.

I like using a silencer on a gun for the same reason that I use a muffler on any loud machine. A silencer makes most guns more comfortable to shoot, that is the main reason I made the effort to make them legal to use in WA.

What argument did you think I was making and what do you disagree with?

Ranb
 
I don't know about YOU, but when I am out hunting in the woods, and others are discharging weapons nearby, I want to clearly hear them.

What suppressed firearms do you use or have seen used for hunting that are not clearly heard when discharged?

The only firearms I have ever used that are not "clearly heard" from a distance are a rifle in 22lr using subsonic ammo and a silencer, or a rifle using 22lr CB ammo. All the rest make a loud noise that is distinctly heard by anyone not far away.

I made a video about silencer use in Minnesota. MN has some of the most stringent laws regarding silencer possession, even the police can not buy them in state. Silencer use is confined to tactical emergency response by the police and for wildlife control by the DNR. The police can't even legally use them for training but I am told they do anyway, just like the WA police used them in violation of the law until July 2011. I am trying to change the law so I can use them when on vactaion there. I do not like to disturb the neighbors when shooting in my mom's field.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDiLl6mPsuw

At six minutes into the video is a demonstration of how loud a suppressed firearm with hunting ammunition really is. I set up the camcorder down range and shot past it. I used a Canon HD camcorder with an external microphone set on a narrow mode to reduce capturing noise reflected off the berms. The captured audio was reduced to eliminate the background noise so it would not interfere with the video narration. It was restored to the original level for the actual gunfire sequences.

It should be obvious that the word silencer is merely a legal term and marketing gimmick; not one that accurately describes what they do.

Ranb
 
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For those doubting, suppressors are both legal and recommended in many European countries, ones where civil rights regarding firearms are a joke compared to the United States.

It's a tool in the toolbox, one that would benefit many.

Some places in the USA, one isn't allowed to use a rifle anyway. I don't know if a slug gun can be meaningfully suppressed. Plenty of other ways to regulate if safety is really a concern.
 
I am helping a guy design a 12 gauge silencer for his Saiga. Unless we are able to enclose the action's gas vent, it will still be loud (but much less so). He also wants to have the silencer removable which means he needs to keep the barrel at least 18 inches long as the state has not passed bill 2099 which will allow him to own a short barreled shotgun. Even if the bill is passed next year, he will have to pay two $200 taxes to chop it down to less than 18 inches and make the silencer.

I think we will go with a perforated tube which will keep the shotcup closed until it leaves the silencer. This means it will degrade acuaracy with slugs. If we go with a conventional rifle design, then shotshells can not be used. It will be a ungainly beast to say the least. If we can get it below 140 decibels, then it will be a success. :)

Ranb
 
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Since a silenced weapon loses distance, velocity and accuracy - I find the Maxim Silencer Company's claims about their product's use in hunting more than a little self serving.

"Flinching?" LOL!

I would suggest perhaps actually learning how to use your weapon properly in the first place might be more useful than a silencer.

Heck, might as well advocate fully automatic hunting weapons for all the same reasons.

OTOH, if you want to use a registered silenced weapon on a range, for target practice, etc... knock yourself out. Just don't pretend it's something it's not.
 
Me Too

I don't know about YOU, but when I am out hunting in the woods, and others are discharging weapons nearby, I want to clearly hear them.

Especially since shooting each other and falling out of trees are main ways hunters get hurt.

Too many 'hunters' hunt by shooting at sound of 'something' moving thru woods.
State laws requiring hunters to dress in day glow orange were made for a purpose.
 
Since a silenced weapon loses distance, velocity and accuracy - I find the Maxim Silencer Company's claims about their product's use in hunting more than a little self serving.

What kind of silencers are you familiar with? The ones I make are similar to most modern silencers in that the bullet does not touch the baffles as long as it is properly mounted. While baffle design has changed a bit in the last hundred years, I have no reason to believe that Maxim's silencers degraded accuracy, velocity or range.

Ever heard of suppressor boost? This happens as a result of the gun powder gases continuing to push on the bullet as it passes through the silencer. Since the bullet is not touching the baffles, it increases in speed a bit. I observed a 4 fps increase in velocity when using a silencer on one of my 22lr rifles.

A silencer adds weight to the barrel. While this usually changes the point of impact, it is a simple matter to adjust the sights to compensate for this. Some shooters report an increase in accuracy when using a silencer that increases tension on the barrel, but I have not observed this on my rifles.

As far as I know the only silencers that degrade speed and accuracy as part of their function are those using mesh or wipes that the bullet punches through. These silencers can be very effective as reducing noise for a short period of time, but the internals wear out quickly and need replacement. I expect my high powered rifle silencers to last for thousands of rounds, longer than the life of the barrel.

"Flinching?" LOL!

I would suggest perhaps actually learning how to use your weapon properly in the first place might be more useful than a silencer.
In my opinion as well as others who use suppressed firearms, using a silencer greatly reduces noise and recoil. This is a valuable aid for novice shooters learning to use a firearm properly. It certainly worked well for my niece and brother.

Heck, might as well advocate fully automatic hunting weapons for all the same reasons.
For what reasons do you advocate using machine guns for hunting?

OTOH, if you want to use a registered silenced weapon on a range, for target practice, etc... knock yourself out. Just don't pretend it's something it's not.
What am I pretending silencers are? I am calling them mufflers that enhance the shooting experience.

Where are you getting your information from anyway? It sounds like you are making it up or getting it from TV. Is this still the standard here for discussions on firearms on this forum? Would it be too much to ask what evidence you have to support your claims?

Ranb
 
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Especially since shooting each other and falling out of trees are main ways hunters get hurt.

Too many 'hunters' hunt by shooting at sound of 'something' moving thru woods.
State laws requiring hunters to dress in day glow orange were made for a purpose.
What does this have to do with silencer use while hunting?

Ranb
 
What kind of silencers are you familiar with? The ones I make are similar to most modern silencers in that the bullet does not touch the baffles as long as it is properly mounted. While baffle design has changed a bit in the last hundred years, I have no reason to believe that Maxim's silencers degraded accuracy, velocity or range.

So this topic is more of an advertisement then?

I expect my high powered rifle silencers to last for thousands of rounds, longer than the life of the barrel.

Yes, it appears to be.

In my opinion as well as others who use suppressed firearms, using a silencer greatly reduces noise and recoil. This is a valuable aid for novice shooters learning to use a firearm properly. It certainly worked well for my niece and brother.

Which would explain why the military and law enforcement use them so much?

For what reasons do you advocate using machine guns for hunting?

Using the same logic as you have been.
 
Robrob, I do promote the responsible use of firearms, nothing wrong with that. So what is it about people like you who make foolish statements instead of providing the least amount of evidence to support their claims? What separates you from the birthers and truthers? From what I have seen in this thread, it is nothing.

I am not aware of how often silencers are used by the police and military. Why not tell us if you know?

I have not advocated using machineguns for hunting. Are you going to talk straight or just keep making up stuff?

Ranb
 
There are others out there, but the two you listed at the most helpful I guess. It has been a long road, but I have found that this year I have received much less flak for promoting silencer use. It looks like there are fewer Crossbows, Scruts and Robrobs out there these days. Thanks.

Ranb
 
Would silencers on hunting rifles help prevent this

A 46-year-old Brigham City man and a friend were duck hunting Sunday about 8:30 a.m. on the north end of the Great Salt Lake near the bird refuge, about 10 miles west of Brigham City.

The two had their canoe-like boat in a shallow marsh area when the man got out of the boat to either set up or collect decoys. He laid his 12-gauge shotgun across the bow of the boat, said Box Elder County Sheriff's Chief Deputy Kevin Potter.

After the man got out of the boat, a dog inside the vessel jumped up on the bow and stepped on the gun. The gun fired and shot the man in the buttocks.

Medical crews later removed 27 pellets of birdshot.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=18299091&title=dog-shoots-man
 
No, silencers would not have prevented that.

Rubber chickens would not have prevented it either.

What does this have to do with anything?
 

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