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He Hasn't Won The Election Yet

grunion

Penultimate Amazing
grunion
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Messages
11,498
Here's a Hail Mary:

A petition started by a man in North Carolina to persuade the Electoral College to elect Hillary Clinton as president is gaining traction on the internet — more than 352,000 people have signed the Change.org petition since it was created Wednesday night.

The petition asks members of the Electoral college to vote for Hillary Clinton because she won the popular vote and expresses that President-elect Donald Trump is unfit to serve.
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Essentially, the argument is that even in those states where electors are bound, Hillary supporters can pay the fines they will incur for changing their vote.

I like it.
 
As much as I dread having Trump as leader of the free world (and I'm not even American), I disagree.

The rules for voting were established prior to the election. Both parties knew what they were. Having an attempted takeover by the electoral college seems too much like changing the rules because it didn't go your way.
 
Segnosaur said:
As much as I dread having Trump as leader of the free world (and I'm not even American), I disagree.

The rules for voting were established prior to the election. Both parties knew what they were. Having an attempted takeover by the electoral college seems too much like changing the rules because it didn't go your way.
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I hate Trump, and this would be a cure worse then the disease.
 
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If they are going to rely on such a bizarre mode of electing presidents to assure that the flyover states get their way once in a while, they deserve whatever rules lawyering they get.
 
grunion said:
If they are going to rely on such a bizarre mode of electing presidents to assure that the flyover states get their way once in a while, they deserve whatever rules lawyering they get.
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The Term "Flyover States" just describes a major reason the Democrats lost the election.
 
If some horrible news about Trump is discovered before December 19, we could convince enough Electors to vote for Hillary instead of Trump.

There is time. We just need some hackers and serious investigators to find something.
 
Segnosaur said:
As much as I dread having Trump as leader of the free world (and I'm not even American), I disagree.

The rules for voting were established prior to the election. Both parties knew what they were. Having an attempted takeover by the electoral college seems too much like changing the rules because it didn't go your way.
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To be fair, I don't think that's a legitimate criticism.

The rules for voting were, indeed, established prior to the election. Those rules are that you don't vote for President. You vote for a slate of electors, and those electors then vote for whoever they wish. Well, some states put restrictions on the "whoever they wish" part. Exact rules vary from one state to the next.

So, asking electors to change their votes is playing within the rules.

But, it isn't going to happen. Short of some really, really, bizarre behavior between now and the day they cast their ballots (which I believe is in early December) all the electors will vote in accordance with the expectations, with the possible exception of a couple of Hillary electors who vote some other way as a means of protesting the existence of the electoral college. (That happened with one elector in each of the 1976 and 2000 elections.)

To summarize, barring some incredibly bizarre behavior by the President-elect, he's in. So....what....25% chance?
 
God damn it, democracy is not democracy unless the vote agrees with my position!

We've got the same nonsense over here regarding the referendum to remain or leave the political construct that is the European Union.

Lots of people need to understand how democracy works. If every election result were to be contested on the basis of the result, the method and who got elected then the whole system would breakdown. And that goes for everyone.

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others".

Rule #5 people, rule #5:

The following link is to the rules of the Velominati. There's a little profanity, so NSFW, hence the spoiler.

 
The only situation in which I see that ever happening is if Trump is incapacitated by illness or accident. In that case it wouldn't necessarily be a given that the presidency would be given to Pence in his place. But equally it wouldn't necessarily mean the EC would be free to give it to the second place candidate. I think in those circumstances the wisest thing to do would be to hold an emergency election all over again, very quickly.
 
There is an interesting Constituional hole here: It nowhere states what would happen if a President elect dies before the college votes. The overwhelming possibility is that the Veep of the party gets moved up to the One spot, but there is nowhere that specifically states that is what legally must happen. It would be totally unknown territory.
 
If some brave newsperson finds some horrible **** about Trump, the Electoral College could choose to give it to Hillary instead.
 
If you advocate the electoral college deviate from the manner it was structured you enable the narrative Trump advanced that the electoral system is rigged. That's my short term concern. Long term, keep in mind... the other side runs candidates every 4 years. If you want to bend the rules of engagement, consider that your political opponents may use is as precedence to do the same.

Thirdly
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Given population density and distributions... popular vote strips other states' say in the elections. I guess that's fine to some people when the popular vote is viewed as the most legit metric, but then, if you live in one of the more sparsely populated states you could say that only certain regional issues will end up driving the national direction of elections if you abolish the electoral college.

Don't forget... that the electoral college was originally structured so as to give each state a proportionate vote in the national scale because of exactly this.
 
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dudalb said:
There is an interesting Constituional hole here: It nowhere states what would happen if a President elect dies before the college votes. The overwhelming possibility is that the Veep of the party gets moved up to the One spot, but there is nowhere that specifically states that is what legally must happen. It would be totally unknown territory.
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I have not read the Constitution to check on this, but I think the answer is fairly straightforward. The electors vote in accordance with state law. That means some of them have to vote for the dead guy. If the dead guy gets 270 electoral votes, then the vice president elect becomes president. That's covered in the Constitution.

Some states allow "faithless electors". If those people vote for the VP-elect, while others vote for the dead guy, then no one has a majority and it goes to the House, and they can vote for anyone who got at least 1 electoral vote.

One thing I'm not clear on is whether the electors would be allowed to vote for the dead guy. Do they have to vote for someone who is qualified to be President?

I would guess that the majority of state laws do cover that possibility, and, if they require their electors to vote in accordance with the state's popular vote, they will require them to vote for the VP-presumptive in the event that the presidential candidate is dead. However, some may have left out that possibility.

ETA: As best I can tell from reading the 12th amendment, the only thing incorrect above is that it is not anyone who got at least 1 electoral vote. It would be anyone among the top three vote getters.
 
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Meadmaker said:
I have not read the Constitution to check on this, but I think the answer is fairly straightforward. The electors vote in accordance with state law. That means some of them have to vote for the dead guy. If the dead guy gets 270 electoral votes, then the vice president elect becomes president. That's covered in the Constitution.

Some states allow "faithless electors". If those people vote for the VP-elect, while others vote for the dead guy, then no one has a majority and it goes to the House, and they can vote for anyone who got at least 1 electoral vote.

One thing I'm not clear on is whether the electors would be allowed to vote for the dead guy. Do they have to vote for someone who is qualified to be President?

I would guess that the majority of state laws do cover that possibility, and, if they require their electors to vote in accordance with the state's popular vote, they will require them to vote for the VP-presumptive in the event that the presidential candidate is dead. However, some may have left out that possibility.
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What if he's not dead, but incapacitated? In a coma, in prison for fraud, gone mad, ran away, was kidnapped, stepped through a Stargate?
 
TragicMonkey said:
What if he's not dead, but incapacitated? In a coma, in prison for fraud, gone mad, ran away, was kidnapped, stepped through a Stargate?
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If he steps through a Stargate, he will probably return leading an advanced technology army and set himself up as Dictator of Earth, even though he would really just be a puppet of the Geminian Empire.

For the other circumstances, see "dead".
 
this is my fantasy:

"BREAKING NEWS!!! newly discovered reports show Trump coordinated with the Russian govt. to spy on Clinton, steal her emails. Trump was also threatened by Putin that if he didn't allow them to invade/annex Latvia and Belarus, Putin would kill his Moscow real-estate deals. And Trump agreed".

that would be enough to end him
 
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