Has Christianity kept us from exploring the galaxy?

[James Fox]

I’m not necessarily taking this poster seriously but it was thought provoking and it looked like it would be a fun question to throw out. So did Christianity have a serious impact on scientific advancements or were other influences like invading barbarians the real culprit?

 

[LarianLeQuella]

I am a "fan" of that poster as well, but like with just about anything, it's a complicated question with too many variables to really pick one silver bullet that we can place the blame on. I don't think that the dogma of christianity HELPED our advancement, but it surely wasn't a singular cause either. After all, why didn't the Americas, Asia, and other non-christian areas keep the advancement up?

 

[Steelmage]

In my early years I read a lot about the original people of Americas, and to my knowledge they too were very religious. With what little I know, in Japan there seem to be constead fighting, I think it was that way for most of Asia.

 

[LarianLeQuella]

True, true. I was just adressing the main target of that poster. I'd say that for it to be more correct, it should say "Irrational Delusions" or something?

 

[Safe-Keeper]

It's easy to look at the poster and go "damned religious people, putting us back 1000 years", but as was said, it's probably a far more complicated issue than "had we only been allowed to learn despite religious dogma, we'd have had colonies on Mars by now".

 

[arthwollipot]

In my early years I read a lot about the original people of Americas, and to my knowledge they too were very religious. With what little I know, in Japan there seem to be constead fighting, I think it was that way for most of Asia.

I'd just like to point out here that military conflict has been one of the strongest instigators of technological development the human race has ever seen. During the so-called "Dark Ages", for example (given the definition provided on the poster - see below), we daw the development of metallurgy as we moved from "chain" mail and quilted armour, through the transitional period towards the plate harnesses of the 15th and 16th century, with a corresponding increase in the quality of the steel. Simlutaneously we went from pattern-welded swords and spears that used poor quality iron, through to the development of high-carbon steel blades with highly specialised purposes. Gunpowder made its appearance in the 14th-15th centuries, which is well before the acknowledged start of the Rennaisance, and triggered another sea change in the use of armour on the battlefield.

In short, the so-called "Dark Ages" was not a period of technological stagnation, as the poster suggests. What's more, the poster conflates the Dark Ages with the Mediaeval periods, which historians generally consider distinct. The Dark Ages is usually described as lasting from the fall of the Roman empire in the 4th - 5th Century to the Battle of Hastings in 1066. The Early, Middle and Late Mediaeval periods followed it, lasting until the Rennaisance in the 16th Century.

All in all, the poster is more than a little bit inaccurate on a number of different levels.

As for its humour value, I usually don't find jokes that are based on misunderstandings or falsehoods to be all that funny.

 

[shadron]

In about 370CE the African libertine Augustine decided (under the influence of his sainted -literally- mother Monica), finally, to convert to Roman Catholicism, giving up his concubine and his Manichieism simultaneously. As is usual for extreme converts he became the flaming torch of truth, burning heretics left and right, bishop of Hippo (Egypt) and Doctor of the Church.

The latter he earned for his writings, which included the City of God where he claimed that the Catholic faith was the divine analog of Rome the eternal city, which at the time was beginning to show some cracks in the seams; only the City of God was much, much better. As a Platonist, he believed that the world was not a worthy life goal, only the attainment of heaven was important. He developed the theme of original sin (what Adam did to the entire human race), and creating the theological backdrop for Christ's final sacrifice.

Augustine's philosophy of life held Europe in it's talons for over 1000 years. Augustine's ideas are epitomized in the villain of Eco's The Name of the Rose, to whom laughter was the greatest sin. For over 100 years everyone within the church's grasp was brought up from birth believing the only thing that was truely worth doing was: he who dies with the most grace wins. Achieving anything in this life was not worth the time.

The history of the world shows it. It's certainly not the only problem the world had, but it was one of them.

 

[paximperium]

China's advancement basically stagnated in the 14th century due to isolationism. With the most advance fleet and science in the world at that time(with some evidence that explorers from China possibly even landing in the North American continent), the Ming Dynasty effectively halted all seaborn trade and exploration. They also halted all foreigners from entering the country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hai_jin

 

[alfalfafour]

[qimg]http://scottklarr.com/media/atheism/motivationalPosters/atheism_motivational_poster_20.jpg[/qimg]

I’m not necessarily taking this poster seriously but it was thought provoking and it looked like it would be a fun question to throw out. So did Christianity have a serious impact on scientific advancements or were other influences like invading barbarians the real culprit?

Just what everybody wants for Christmas. Another Bigoted approach to Christians. Sure, just blame all of Christiandom for the actions of a few Popes.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

Sagan talks about a similar issue in "Cosmos"

 

[alfalfafour]

Sagan talks about a similar issue in "Cosmos"

Did he happen to mention how the Chinese or the Aboriginal Austrailians managed to develop the steam engine and wireless communications while the rest of the world was so burdened by Christianity?

I did't think so. I have a question for all of you astronomers if you believe the above chart is correct. The Mayan Calendar ends on Dec 21, 2012. That is alost exactly 4 Baktuns from the point where the previous acceleration of Astronomical Study ends. Is there any significance to that? Is it exactly 4 Baktuns between crossings of the Dark Rift?

 

[SimonD]

Did he happen to mention how the Chinese or the Aboriginal Austrailians managed to develop the steam engine and wireless communications while the rest of the world was so burdened by Christianity?

Huh?

Aboriginal Australia's had the steam engine?

Source please.

 

[alfalfafour]

Huh?

Aboriginal Australia's had the steam engine?

Source please.

If they had it, they got it from one of those poor deprived societies so burdened by Christian dogma. Those unfortunate ....

 

[PixyMisa]

I blame the Sea Peoples and the Bronze Age collapse in the 12th century BC. If it weren't for them, or for whatever it was that caused the collapse, we could have seen Imperial Rome a thousand years early and been exploring the galaxy before Christianity was even founded.

 

[Cavemonster]

Did he happen to mention how the Chinese or the Aboriginal Austrailians managed to develop the steam engine and wireless communications while the rest of the world was so burdened by Christianity?

I

You mean this kind of steam engine?
http://www.newcomen.com/excerpts/prenatal.htm

I agree that the notion of zero progress through the "dark ages" seems hyperbolic, but this tired notion that Christianity culture is some unique fount of all the technology in the world is even worse.

 

[alfalfafour]

I blame the Sea Peoples and the Bronze Age collapse in the 12th century BC. If it weren't for them, or for whatever it was that caused the collapse, we could have seen Imperial Rome a thousand years early and been exploring the galaxy before Christianity was even founded.

If it wasn't for those pesky dinosaurs, It could have been 200 million years ago.

One thing has never changed in humanity since the dawn of civilization:

The ability to blame someone else.

 

[arthwollipot]

Just what everybody wants for Christmas. Another Bigoted approach to Christians. Sure, just blame all of Christiandom for the actions of a few Popes.

Except as I pointed out, the presentation is wrong in a number of ways. I agree with you, but for different reasons.

 

[alfalfafour]

As for its humour value, I usually don't find jokes that are based on misunderstandings or falsehoods to be all that funny.

I agree with your military assesment, sir. Semper Fi.

I also believe that most of humor comes from incongruous events. It is the falsehood that is pitted against the truth which makes most of humor.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Even now these guys are eating up resources that could be used elsewhere including research. I'm talking about all the wasted resources needed to combat the bad science of creationism and ID.

 

[alfalfafour]

Even now these guys are eating up resources that could be used elsewhere including research. I'm talking about all the wasted resources needed to combat the bad science of creationism and ID.

Why do you need waste any resources? Using your resources to fight Christianity allowed about 36 million people to starve in the word in 2006. Christians, of which I am not one, spent lots of money trying to feed many of those babies. Of course the big anti force associated with that was the Catholic Church stance on Family planning. You can't lump all Christians into a courtroom in rural Pennsylvania. Do you guys know the difference between bigotry and skepticism?

Just to steer away from these off-hand comments about christianity, and toward the exploration of the galaxy, I repeat my earlier Galactic topical question:

I have a question for all of you astronomers if you believe the above chart is correct. The Mayan Calendar ends on Dec 21, 2012. That is alost exactly 4 Baktuns from the point where the previous acceleration of Astronomical Study ends. Is there any significance to that? Is it exactly 4 Baktuns between crossings of the Dark Rift?