Grenade Attack

[evildave]

So, according to the news, an American soldier "who recently converted to Islam" killed one and wounded a dozen more with a grenade attack. It's speculated to be religiously motivated, and now on the news the talking heads are discussing whether "there could be more" waiting to attack.

In any case, an isolated event receiving lots of news coverage. One dork, a big percentage of the casualties.

Of course, it prompts me to wonder what sort of treatment he was receiving at the hands of his peers before the attack happened. Certainly someone who was treated consistently as a friend and peer would NOT tend to toss a grenade into a tent full of sleeping friends and peers in the middle of the night.

But HEY! He's got an iron clad defense now: "Allah on the brain!" And a prominent detail of news coverage: His race.

What the heck is wrong with these people? The journalists, the one guy, the people who hate? ALL OF THEM?



Correction: Three grenades, into tents of the command staff.

 

[John Bryce]

What are the religions of the people attacked in the tents? The media.

 

[c4ts]

Was he holding the grenade while it exploded?

 

[Earthborn]

I chose "Breakdown from non-stop personal abuse combined with stress". Of course I don't really know, but this is usually an important factor in such behavior. It is the most explanatory, too.
Just saying that 'he's an ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊' doesn't explain anything.

I think it is important to always try to find reasons why someone comes to such behavior. Understanding it may help to prevent such an attack in the future.

I would not be surprised if this person thought he was ordered by God directly. Probably he also had an alchohol or drug problem, because people usually can't do stuff like this without some means of lowering their restraints.

 

[evildave]

Well, out in the middle of the desert, the nearest liquor store is a bit hard to find, and keeping a "stash" together in the middle of 100 other guys is not going to be easy. One may as well make the claim that to engage in battle at all requires some chemical "loosening up".

But what of the explanation?

If we have a good explanation for why he started rolling grenades into tents (he was apparently caught at it, intact, BTW), that probably still doesn't take us anywhere new.

It's obvious, for instance that things like various anti-Islamic things would probably be said within earshot of this guy fairly regularly. I learned the term "Rag Head" when stationed in Saudi Arabia (before the first Gulf War). Various catchy racist and religious epithets are probably NOT passed around openly, because they're officially crimes in the military. That doesn't mean he isn't excluded from things, and certain kinds of conversations don't stop when the "Muslim Guy" walks through the door.

But would all the "good reasons" in the world justify rolling grenades into tents? I don't think so. But that's my opinion. Most likely it will be the legal opinion of the courts martial, too.

We can come to understand the causes, but what exactly can we do about them? Decades of simple racial integration in the military don't do anything for religious integration, and the racist elements are still present. I seem to recall implicit punishments in Basic training for those who didn't go to church (non-denominational Christian) on sunday. Of course, hanging around and cleaning the barracks was a LOT less boring than going to services for me, no matter if they got me out of the barracks.

 

[c4ts]

Well, if he didn't also blow himself up, how did he expect to find the kingdom of Allah?

 

[evildave]

Oh, well he'll probably be courts martialled and shot. Or maybe they'll make sure he spends a LONG life in prison. Either way, by doing his "good" deed, I'm sure he believes his place in heaven is guaranteed.

 

[Earthborn]

... keeping a "stash" together in the middle of 100 other guys is not going to be easy.

But perhaps not impossible. And it might be possible that this guy already loosened up before he got in the army.

One may as well make the claim that to engage in battle at all requires some chemical "loosening up".

Well I know for a fact that a) The Zulus did exactly that b) There is no other way to move me anywhere near a battlefield.

At the very least I would suspect that teaching someone to kill will increase the likelihood that that person will kill... perhaps even the wrong people.

But would all the "good reasons" in the world justify rolling grenades into tents?

No, of course not. But the fact that someone does, justifies investigating the factors that contributed in him doing it. Even if it is only to know if there is any way to help prevent something like it happening a next time.

We can come to understand the causes, but what exactly can we do about them?

That depends largely on the actual causes. I might imagine better psychological screening before someone enrolls, or better psychological guidance during duty. If it would be determined that personal harassment was an important factor, it might be a good idea to invest in giving soldiers more privacy, so they can retreat from the harrasment. There maybe many hundreds of things that can be changed to solve any problem.

Of course I happen to be a 'System-Radical': if someone does something horribly wrong, I prefer to look at the environment in which they did wrong instead of simply blaming the person him/herself. I find that it is a much more constructive approach.

I seem to recall implicit punishments in Basic training for those who didn't go to church (non-denominational Christian) on sunday. Of course, hanging around and cleaning the barracks was a LOT less boring than going to services for me, no matter if they got me out of the barracks.

As a 'system-radical' I would not have punished you, since I would not consider that a constructive way of dealing with unwanted behavior. Instead I would have made services less boring. What a novel concept, hey?

 

[evildave]

It wasn't so much actual "punishment" as an inducement to go. "You can go to church, and get a break from this military indoctrination, eat some home-made snacks, and mill around and talk to people, or you can stay behind and polish things. It's the absence of any other social thing that made it specific.

A little "good clean fun" might have inspired me to go (eg, 'orgies'), but I think they lacked the material to make any of it interesting to me. (i.e. Generic pleading, chanting, thanking, begging, bleating, with interminable singing of dreary single-themed songs in a big mass of people that drowns you out utterly, conforming, smothering, etc.)

A bit like the last half of most news programs is all sports. If I had an undying devotion to several professional sports teams, I might be interested in watching the sports part of the news... but when the news switches over to sports It's basically my signal to go to bed. Nothing about who -won-what trivial event matters to me in the least. I may as well read the phone book.

But anyway, the grenade guy interests me, because it could lead to some interesting news... I can foresee a pissible (but unlikely) future where a minor purge of Islamic individuals from key posts in the military takes place. Based on attending the wrong flavors of Islam, initially. Not that the lists haven't been built, yet. They can pull the believers off the front-line where weapons are close at hand. Then they can begin shipping them home. Naturally, this is denying people a key path to promotion (i.e. participating in battles), and a big civil rights suit waiting to happen. The story has potential to boil into something entertaining at the very least.

 

[Lisa]

EvilDave, do we know each other?
I must agree that the "reasons" will be entertaining. I'm sure his lawyers will bring up all sorts of angst he went through while growing up.
I will admit I have some prejudice about Muslims in the military. I learned this the hard way.
I had a new troop come in. Remember, I'm Atheist, so I give a ◊◊◊◊ what anyone believes. Here's the conversation, and it still pisses me off:
Me: We have an outage at trans. You, you, and you, go take care of it.
Muslim Guy: You're making me work because I'm Muslim!

(At this point my jaw dropped. The other two guys were asian and Hispanic. Since MG was new, I thought it would be a cool idea for him to go out on jobs with the more experienced personel and and learn his job)

Was he called names? I dunno. Since I'm an atheist, I've been called some very interesting names.
But I never blew up tent full of people over it.

 

[Rusty_the_boy_robot]

I chose "Breakdown from non-stop personal abuse combined with stress". Of course I don't really know, but this is usually an important factor in such behavior. It is the most explanatory, too.
Just saying that 'he's an ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊' doesn't explain anything.

I'm an ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ and I haven't killed anybody =)

I think we would do best to wait for the actual report before we decide on the guys motivation. The religious integration in the army bit is really interesting though.

 

[WonderfulWorld]

"◊◊◊◊◊◊◊" is the only reasonable answer. Mental abuse, religious belief, resentment over being held back from combat -- none of that explains his behavior, were he not an ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊. "◊◊◊◊◊◊◊" is sine qua non.

 

[Dragonrock]

I voted "a**hole" because they said on the news that he had prior discipline problems. I doubt his religion had anything to do with it, I figure he was just mad and thought he could get away with killing those who made him angry.

 

[evildave]

EvilDave, do we know each other?
I must agree that the "reasons" will be entertaining. I'm sure his lawyers will bring up all sorts of angst he went through while growing up.
I will admit I have some prejudice about Muslims in the military. I learned this the hard way.
I had a new troop come in. Remember, I'm Atheist, so I give a ◊◊◊◊ what anyone believes. Here's the conversation, and it still pisses me off:
Me: We have an outage at trans. You, you, and you, go take care of it.
Muslim Guy: You're making me work because I'm Muslim!

(At this point my jaw dropped. The other two guys were asian and Hispanic. Since MG was new, I thought it would be a cool idea for him to go out on jobs with the more experienced personel and and learn his job)

Was he called names? I dunno. Since I'm an atheist, I've been called some very interesting names.
But I never blew up tent full of people over it.

Well, the problem you describe here is the one where a person either believes his/her religion entitles them to special consideration (not likely), or this tactic of crying "persecution" has worked so long that it has become a life-long habit. There are probably a few people who even adopt an oddball religious belief just so they can make these "harrassment" claims.

Either they're stupid, lazy, or perhaps even both stupid and lazy.

Maybe he's even looking for that big "harassment" jackpot where he can get to claim the "big prize" for someone saying the wrong thing when this behavior provokes someone enough, in front of witnesses.