Green Peace Nuclear Power Proponent

[Rob Lister]

Well, former Green Peace anyway. He was somewhat excommunicated for reaching a single logical conclusion...
Still, he retains his green credentials.

snip

The 600-plus coal-fired plants emit nearly 2 billion tons of CO2annually -- the equivalent of the exhaust from about 300 million automobiles. In addition, the Clean Air Council reports that coal plants are responsible for 64 percent of sulfur dioxide emissions, 26 percent of nitrous oxides and 33 percent of mercury emissions. These pollutants are eroding the health of our environment, producing acid rain, smog, respiratory illness and mercury contamination.

Meanwhile, the 103 nuclear plants operating in the United States effectively avoid the release of 700 million tons of CO2emissions annually -- the equivalent of the exhaust from more than 100 million automobiles. Imagine if the ratio of coal to nuclear were reversed so that only 20 percent of our electricity was generated from coal and 60 percent from nuclear. This would go a long way toward cleaning the air and reducing greenhouse gas emissions. Every responsible environmentalist should support a move in that direction.

Patrick Moore, co-founder of Greenpeace, is chairman and chief scientist of Greenspirit Strategies Ltd. He and Christine Todd Whitman are co-chairs of a new industry-funded initiative, the Clean and Safe Energy Coalition, which supports increased use of nuclear energy.

 

[Tmy]

What do they think about windfarms? They are clean, but they (supposably) kill bird and ugly up the scenerey. Its an enviro-catch 22.

 

[Cleon]

What do they think about windfarms? They are clean, but they (supposably) kill bird and ugly up the scenerey. Its an enviro-catch 22.

Yep. Fundamentally, there's no environmentally safe method of efficient power generation. Wind and solar are too inefficient. Coal and oil plants throw a ****load of crap into the air. Nuclear fission generates waste that is radioactive for centuries. I imagine even when we've discovered a way to use nuclear fusion someone is going to find some sort of problem with it.

The solution? Environmentalist slave labor. Just have them turn a generator in big-ass hamster wheels.

 

[Rob Lister]

I imagine even when we've discovered a way to use nuclear fusion someone is going to find some sort of problem with it.

I've already seen it. I'll let you google first [cause I'm lazy] but the stated difficulty revolved around 1) neutron pollution and 2) hazardous H2 (assuming IRC). Not much noted support though...but really no need at this early juncture. When it gets close to reality...if...then they will ramp up efforts. It's a technology just begging for an activist to anti-it.

P.S. I think the interior Antartic would be the perfect International Nuclear Storage Facility. Don't roll your eyes, it has downsides but all are political, not technical.

 

[Jimbo07]

Fusion power:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_power

Protestors can get stuffed

 

[gnome]

What do they think about windfarms? They are clean, but they (supposably) kill bird and ugly up the scenerey. Its an enviro-catch 22.

I understand the bird-killing aspect can be avoided by a redesign of the windmills to avoid perching spots--unfortunately the irony involved of dead birds for clean energy leads the idea to spread anyway.

That said, if going heavy nuclear (with adequate safety and waste process) can help our energy independence, I'm all for it. While I'd like to give up on nuclear power because the problem of nuclear waste seems so intractible... the oil problem has priority in my mind right now.

 

[epepke]

I understand the bird-killing aspect can be avoided by a redesign of the windmills to avoid perching spots--unfortunately the irony involved of dead birds for clean energy leads the idea to spread anyway.

The dead birds can be made into biodiesel.

 

[Cleon]

The dead birds can be made into biodiesel.

 

[Tony]

The solution? Environmentalist slave labor. Just have them turn a generator in big-ass hamster wheels.

I've often thought about this, although, without the slavery. Why cant we use human powered energy? I'm thinking of a giant wharehouse full of thousands of people (making say, $10 an hour) riding exercise bikes with power generators. Why wouldn't that work?

 

[Cleon]

I've often thought about this, although, without the slavery. Why cant we use human powered energy? I'm thinking of a giant wharehouse full of thousands of people (making say, $10 an hour) riding exercise bikes with power generators. Why wouldn't that work?

Seems to me it would be less efficient than a windfarm, and you'd have to pay $10/hour per turbine. But I'm too lazy to actually do the physics equations.

Not to mention people who are physically fit enough to ride a bike for eight hours straight are pretty rare.

 

[geni]

P.S. I think the interior Antartic would be the perfect International Nuclear Storage Facility. Don't roll your eyes, it has downsides but all are political, not technical.

With the ice melting and therefore the weight on the bedrock reducing I'm not sure it would be that geologicaly stable. Moveing stuff as heavy as nuclear waste out there would also be a bit of a problem.

 

[geni]

I've often thought about this, although, without the slavery. Why cant we use human powered energy? I'm thinking of a giant wharehouse full of thousands of people (making say, $10 an hour) riding exercise bikes with power generators. Why wouldn't that work?

Because you are basicaly useing biomass as fuel (people have to eat) so you would not get nearly enough energy and you would be wasteing a lot of that energy.

 

[Tmy]

I understand the bird-killing aspect can be avoided by a redesign of the windmills to avoid perching spots--unfortunately the irony involved of dead birds for clean energy leads the idea to spread anyway.

That said, if going heavy nuclear (with adequate safety and waste process) can help our energy independence, I'm all for it. While I'd like to give up on nuclear power because the problem of nuclear waste seems so intractible... the oil problem has priority in my mind right now.

What kind of dumb ass bird cant avoid a giant windmill!?!?

 

[rudar]

I've often thought about this, although, without the slavery. Why cant we use human powered energy? I'm thinking of a giant wharehouse full of thousands of people (making say, $10 an hour) riding exercise bikes with power generators. Why wouldn't that work?

I was on a resistance bike for a bit at the physio last week, and it was rated in watts. I could sustain about 150W, for 15 minutes. OK, I've been off the leg for a while (hence the physio), but still, I'd be surprised you'd average more than 200W per ``employee'' on this scheme. So, $50 per kWh, just in salaries, without counting equipment maintenance and distribution network. I'm thinking not so viable...

 

[Zep]

Re the dead bird from windmills thing: How many birds have been killed by generator windmills so far?

[Obviously leading to...]

Is this just a giant (windmill) furphy?

 

[The Fool]

P.S. I think the interior Antartic would be the perfect International Nuclear Storage Facility. Don't roll your eyes, it has downsides but all are political, not technical.

yea rob...top Idea, I end up spending all day beating off huge mutant penguins with evil glowing green eyes landing on the south coast of Australia......Nope....smack bang in the centre of the USA is the best place, nothing much goes on there!!

ETA: I just checked a map and Nebraska seems just about perfect...never heard of anything good that has come out of Nebraska..

 

[gtc]

I was on a resistance bike for a bit at the physio last week, and it was rated in watts. I could sustain about 150W, for 15 minutes. OK, I've been off the leg for a while (hence the physio), but still, I'd be surprised you'd average more than 200W per ``employee'' on this scheme. So, $50 per kWh, just in salaries, without counting equipment maintenance and distribution network. I'm thinking not so viable...

I wonder if a gym could cut its electricity bill by harnessing the electricity generated by the exercise bikes.

 

[The Fool]

I wonder if a gym could cut its electricity bill by harnessing the electricity generated by the exercise bikes.

There is a lot of competition from big players in the electricity generation business. Gyms would be better off looking for a niche market in high value added products....milling organic flour or churning boutique cheeses etc....

 

[Cain]

Make it a condition for receiving universal healthcare. People get exercise, we generate electricity, quality of life increases, healthcare costs (presumably) decline. It might after all be more efficient to have people die of a massive heart attack in their mid-fifties, losing ~ten years of productive labor, than have them live to be 90, thus draining social services without making an economic contribution.

Also, that article is old. I'm pretty sure that guy is no longer a member of Greenpeace and elsewhere he has denied global warming (which made the article, if I remember correctly, rather dishonest). He might have been the guy featured in a monumentally stupid segment on Penn & Teller's show.

 

[BPSCG]

yea rob...top Idea, I end up spending all day beating off huge mutant penguins

Keep your sexual fantasies to yourself, Fool!

ETA: I just checked a map and Nebraska seems just about perfect...never heard of anything good that has come out of Nebraska..

Johnny Carson was from Nebraska.

Try NeVADa (I know, similar sounding names, both out west somewheres...). It's 90% stinking desert, and 3/4 of the population lives in Las Vegas.