Google & China -- What's Really Going On?

[Wolfman]

Google announced today that they will no longer censor search results in China -- but they are not leaving China. They will get around the legal issues (or attempt to) via a legal technicality, referring the China site through their Hong Kong site (which is not censored).

Now, this whole thing has been promoted in the media for quite some time now as Google's noble, principled stand for freedom of speech, and freedom of information. And yeah, I think there's some of that involved here.

But more than that, I think it is a very savvy marketing ploy. By standing up to the Chinese gov't, they've made themselves a folk hero to the Chinese people...a foreign company fighting for its right to let the Chinese people have access to the information they want.

Curiously, there's an aspect to this that I have not really seen mentioned in any of the media reports. Okay, Google stops censoring its results. Fine. So you search for "1989 Tiananmen Square Massacre", and instead of getting an error screen, you get a list of search results. Great! True internet freedom!

Except...ooooops...when you click on those links, all of them have been blocked by the Chinese government!! So, in truth, the amount of information available to Chinese people is only marginally better than it was before Google stopped censoring results.

Meanwhile, the knowledgeable internet user in China has a whole library of software -- vpn, proxy servers, and other software -- that lets them get around the Great Chinese Firewall entirely. Rendering Google's decision essentially moot. They were already getting all this info before Google ever made a move.

My personal analysis: Google dominates the search market in most of the world, but in China has only a small share, while its Chinese competitor, Baidu.com, controls most of it. Google needs a way to increase its market share, and increase profits.

And "Bingo!"...look at what has happened. Google has announced that, despite 'threats' to the contrary, it does not plan to leave China. And it has increased its own market share within China, becoming an international hero in the process -- all while not really doing much to increase Chinese access to information in any significant manner whatsoever.

Folks, it is business as usual. And I congratulate Google, they have learned how to play the China game far better than most other foreign companies here (you don't kowtow to the gov't, you play hardball negotiation, but know where to draw the line). This is most definitely a company to watch, and a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Of course it's a marketing ploy, but as usual, thanks for the enlightening "inside view".

 

[Slayhamlet]

Curiously, there's an aspect to this that I have not really seen mentioned in any of the media reports. Okay, Google stops censoring its results. Fine. So you search for "1989 Tiananmen Square Massacre", and instead of getting an error screen, you get a list of search results. Great! True internet freedom!

Except...ooooops...when you click on those links, all of them have been blocked by the Chinese government!! So, in truth, the amount of information available to Chinese people is only marginally better than it was before Google stopped censoring results.

True enough, but isn't the very visibility of the censorship, and the extent of the censorship, likely to cause more discontent with the system among Chinese? When they do click these links and get an error screen, at least then they know what sort of information exists out there which their government for whatever reason doesn't want them to see. Now, with an issue like the Tiananman Square massacre there are probably precious few Chinese who aren't already aware of the incident and of how sensitively their government views it, but that isn't necessarily the case with every issue, is it?

Meanwhile, the knowledgeable internet user in China has a whole library of software -- vpn, proxy servers, and other software -- that lets them get around the Great Chinese Firewall entirely. Rendering Google's decision essentially moot. They were already getting all this info before Google ever made a move.

But how many Chinese are knowledgeable Internet users? A subset of the mostly young, urbanite population which has an active interest in accessing information blocked by the "Great Firewall", I'm sure. But how many others have that interest? And if they didn't care or know enough about the censorship in the first place, what reason would they have to use proxy servers to get around it?

Folks, it is business as usual. And I congratulate Google, they have learned how to play the China game far better than most other foreign companies here (you don't kowtow to the gov't, you play hardball negotiation, but know where to draw the line). This is most definitely a company to watch, and a force to be reckoned with.

Well, obviously Google wouldn't have done it if they hadn't thought they could get something out of it. Could it not still backfire on them, though? What stops the Chinese government from simply barring Google altogether, considering they comprise only such a small share of the Chinese market to begin with?

 

[Leif Roar]

Now, this whole thing has been promoted in the media for quite some time now as Google's noble, principled stand for freedom of speech, and freedom of information. And yeah, I think there's some of that involved here.

But more than that, I think it is a very savvy marketing ploy. By standing up to the Chinese gov't, they've made themselves a folk hero to the Chinese people...a foreign company fighting for its right to let the Chinese people have access to the information they want.

I think it makes sense to see it as Google's response to the Aurora attacks against it a few months ago.

 

[Ausmerican]

It seems that at the bottom line is it is a gamble, but they are gambling with what they can afford.
China kicks Google out, Google is no worse off, and likely better off due to the good PR both in China and around the world, than when they went into China a couple of years ago.
If China folds? Damn, they just made legendary PR status.

 

[DC]

as a Chinese i would more be pissed at the Chineses Governmnet and not at Google......

 

[Wolfman]

True enough, but isn't the very visibility of the censorship, and the extent of the censorship, likely to cause more discontent with the system among Chinese? When they do click these links and get an error screen, at least then they know what sort of information exists out there which their government for whatever reason doesn't want them to see. Now, with an issue like the Tiananman Square massacre there are probably precious few Chinese who aren't already aware of the incident and of how sensitively their government views it, but that isn't necessarily the case with every issue, is it?

At least in my experience (granting that this does not extend to every Chinese person), Chinese internet users are more than aware of the extent of censorship already. Online forums and bbs sites regularly tell people what sites are blocked, or pass on information that the gov't has tried to censor.

But how many Chinese are knowledgeable Internet users? A subset of the mostly young, urbanite population which has an active interest in accessing information blocked by the "Great Firewall", I'm sure. But how many others have that interest? And if they didn't care or know enough about the censorship in the first place, what reason would they have to use proxy servers to get around it?

I think this question pretty much answers itself. Of course, for those who don't care about getting info that is censored (or who don't have internet access to begin with) won't care much about learning how to use such software. But for anyone who is, its relatively easy to find and use such software.

Well, obviously Google wouldn't have done it if they hadn't thought they could get something out of it. Could it not still backfire on them, though? What stops the Chinese government from simply barring Google altogether, considering they comprise only such a small share of the Chinese market to begin with?

Google has a lot of services in China besides the search engine...and long-term, those are expected to be bigger revenue generators. The Chinese gov't has punished Google somewhat by temporarily blocking some of those services where possible, but pretty much everyone agrees that this is likely a temporary measure, just to show that they're still the ones in power.

But barring Google entirely...its not too likely. That would set a precedent that would scare away an awful lot of foreign investment, investment that China still really needs to fuel its continuing growth. The gov't is gonna' spank Google...but they're not gonna' kill them.

 

[H3LL]

Meanwhile, the knowledgeable internet user in China has a whole library of software -- vpn, proxy servers, and other software -- that lets them get around the Great Chinese Firewall entirely.

I always seemed to end up going through Spain for some reason.

It was 5 years ago, so things must have moved on. I almost miss the challenge ... almost.

.

 

[INRM]

I think they want the Chinese to get hold of all the personal data they hold on all the search queries made on everybody since 1998, which then will "force" the NSA to have to have the same information to be on a level playing field with the Chinese (Remember people weren't happy with the NSA working with Google, so instead let a situation arise in which the public, in order to be "safe" from the Chinese will be willing to let the NSA have all of Google's records)

With the US National Security Agency's AQUAINT system they could easily sort and organize this data into detailed dossiers on everybody to the point they could even infer how that person thinks and acts, possibly even predict future behavior. That could lead to a "Minority Report" society and, in my opinion, gives the government way too much power (I don't trust any government to have that kind of power and it not to be misused somehow -- the political climate since 2001 only re-enforces this belief)

INRM