Good old Castro...

[zenith-nadir]

As if America doesn't have enough problems...

Link here

HAVANA - Mon Jun 21,12:50 PM ET- Tens of thousands of Cubans rallied Monday, as Fidel Castro warned President Bush against launching a military attack on Cuba, saying it would provoke a mass exodus and an all-out ground war.

"You would never be able to win that war," the Cuban leader said. "Here you will not find a divided people."

Reminds me of the the movie "The Mouse that Roared"...I can just see a carrier group engaging a flotilla of 1956 Chevys lashed together with rusty 40-gallon drums...I never ever understood America's hardon for Castro, the Bay of Pigs was over fourty years ago and fall of communism fifteen years ago...is Jesse Jackson extorting anyone this week? Maybe we can send him to extend an olive branch...

 

[LostAngeles]

I personally find Cuba eerily disturbing. I hear reports of a 95% literacy rate, everyone having health care, and people who remember the old government liking Castro very much since they have "more." I also hear reports of Castro silencing dissidents harshly, secret prisions, tortures, and that it is a tolitarian state.

What bothers me is all that might be true. (We know about the bad. I'm referring to the good.)

I'd like to see a dialogue happen with Castro and the sanctions eased. U.S.-Cuba relations should improve. After all, our relations with China have.

I think Castro might be blowing it out his butt on this one though.

 

[WildCat]

Castro is not at all loved or even liked by average Cubans. The country is ripe to be "killed with kindness" except for the overly influential Cuban lobby in Florida dictating our foreign policy. This gives Castro an excuse we shouldn't be handing him.

To that lobby, I'd say: It's been 40 years! Give it up already, you're never going to get your land, factory, power, etc. back.

 

[Grammatron]

I personally find Cuba eerily disturbing. I hear reports of a 95% literacy rate, everyone having health care, and people who remember the old government liking Castro very much since they have "more." I also hear reports of Castro silencing dissidents harshly, secret prisions, tortures, and that it is a tolitarian state.

What bothers me is all that might be true. (We know about the bad. I'm referring to the good.)

I'd like to see a dialogue happen with Castro and the sanctions eased. U.S.-Cuba relations should improve. After all, our relations with China have.

I think Castro might be blowing it out his butt on this one though.

Two reasons why we have not improved relations with Cuba: 1) Castro, 2) Florida. Although odds are the former will seize to be a problem in the near future.

 

[Blue Monk]

Castro.

Boy, talk about your dinosaurs of the modern world. I wish he’d die already.

I really don’t know how much difference his death would make but I suspect it might open a door for a new policy with Cuba. I guess a lot depends on who takes over after he’s gone.

And zenith-nadir,

Do not be so quick to dismiss a flotilla of ’56 Chevys. Them’s American made cars from the good ol’ days and dey was built to last, hehe.

 

[a_unique_person]

Once again, ZN, you fail to appreciate what you get if you fight a war against someone who doesn't want you there. If the people do hate Castro, then he would probably already have fallen, or have a regime that had to run like North Korea does. For all it's faults, I don't believe that Cuba is anything like NK.

If they don't want an invasion, you would have to kill so many people as to make the US even more of a pariah than it already is. So may win Cuba, but you would lose a lot more than that in international reputation.

 

[geni]

I really don’t know how much difference his death would make but I suspect it might open a door for a new policy with Cuba. I guess a lot depends on who takes over after he’s gone.

Last I heard his brother was the leading candidate to take over.

 

[Tony]

For all it's faults, I don't believe that Cuba is anything like NK.

Too bad the facts contradict your belief.

 

[a_unique_person]

It has nothing like the standing army NK does, does not posses nukes or plan to make them, it does not have the mass starvation that NK does, or the political repression or idol worship.

It does have some of these faults, to a lesser degree. The people of Cuba are nowhere near as badly off as the people of NK.

 

[varwoche]

Two reasons why we have not improved relations with Cuba: 1) Castro, 2) Florida. Although odds are the former will seize to be a problem in the near future.

To spell out what I believe it is you meant: Florida electoral politics.

 

[Blue Monk]

Last I heard his brother was the leading candidate to take over.

Right.

Jimmy Castro.

just kidding, hehe.

Yeah I think your right and his brother Raul (I think that's his name) is the heir apparant though I really don't know much about him.

 

[Jocko]

Last I heard his brother was the leading candidate to take over.

I hadn't heard that, but it would surely be a pity... our gripe with Cuba is largely a personal one. When Castro dies, there's a good chance things will open up unless we get Castro II, Beneath the Planet of Castro.

Like it or not, the man DID put Russian nukes within 90 miles of US soil. I'm so quick to forget that, either.

 

[Skeptic]

If the people do hate Castro, then he would probably already have fallen, or have a regime that had to run like North Korea does.

"If the people do hate communist rule, then it would have probably already have fallen, or would have turned into a regime that is run like North Korea."--AUP in 1987, explaining to everybody why all this talk about the communist block being disliked by its people is capitalist propaganda.

So, any dictator who doesn't actually set up gas chambers and starves a quarter of his population, like NK's nutcase does, must really be popular and loved by the people, since otherwise "he probably would already fallen". And the longer the secret police and military keep him in power, the more loved by the people he really is, of course, because it makes the time in which he should "already have fallen" longer.

And to think I blamed you for coddling dictators...

If they don't want an invasion, you would have to kill so many people as to make the US even more of a pariah than it already is.

(snot) so Stalinist Cuba, with its one-party rule, dictatorial strongman, secret police, and gulags is not a pariah nation for AUP, but the USA is. Oh wait, I forgot. Cuba isn't really a dictatorship, because the people really love Castro--otherwise, he would already have fallen.

Pay no attention to those who try to escape to Florida through shark-infested waters in rickety boats and inner tubes, preferring the risk of drowning and dismemberment to life with the beloved Castro. They're just ingrates who cannot understand how wonderful Castro and his regime are.

"After years, Winston won his battle against himself. He loved big brother"--the closing line of Orwell's "1984". But hey, they all did--otherwise Big Brother must "surely had fallen" by the end of the book, right?

So may win Cuba, but you would lose a lot more than that in international reputation.

You remind me of the Arab press about israel. It's the usual ritual:

Before israeli action X: "The cowardly jewish sons of pigs and dogs are so scared of us they will not even do X. May they drown in their own blood!"

After israeli action X: "The stupid israelies do not understand such actions will cause us to resent them and will lower our appreciation of them."

Same here, with you.

Before discussing possible Cuban action, you say: "The US is widely resented as the worst nation in the world, it's a pariah for all freedom loving people and is worse than the nazis."

Now, concerning such a possible action, you say: "The US would hurt its international reputation and make it go lower than it is."

In both cases, the question is begged: lower than what?

 

[a_unique_person]

If the people do hate Castro, then he would probably already have fallen, or have a regime that had to run like North Korea does.

"If the people do hate communist rule, then it would have probably already have fallen, or would have turned into a regime that is run like North Korea."--AUP in 1987, explaining to everybody why all this talk about the communist block being disliked by its people is capitalist propaganda.

So, any dictator who doesn't actually set up gas chambers and starves a quarter of his population, like NK's nutcase does, must really be popular and loved by the people, since otherwise "he probably would already fallen". And the longer the secret police and military keep him in power, the more loved by the people he really is, of course, because it makes the time in which he should "already have fallen" longer.

And to think I blamed you for coddling dictators...

When the rest of the USSR fell, Cuba didn't. I can only assume that Cuba was not as resented or repressive as the rest of the USSR. I am not saying that it is good that Cuba is a dictatorship, or that I think other countries should aspire to be dictatorships like Cuba, just that, as dictators go, Castor is of the more benign kind. Nothing more, nothing less.

The notion, however, that the US should invade Cuba is utterly ridiculous. It would cause more harm than it solves.

If they don't want an invasion, you would have to kill so many people as to make the US even more of a pariah than it already is.

(snot) so Stalinist Cuba, with its one-party rule, dictatorial strongman, secret police, and gulags is not a pariah nation for AUP, but the USA is. Oh wait, I forgot. Cuba isn't really a dictatorship, because the people really love Castro--otherwise, he would already have fallen.

That's right, Guantanamo Bay is such a Cuban institution of brutality. Whoops, make that US....

 

[rwald]

To be fair, Skeptic, the Cubans who flee to Florida aren't exactly representative of the entire population. One wouldn't expect the Cubans who actually like Castro to try to leave, so we wouldn't hear about them.

Given that, I grew up in South Florida, so I've heard too much propaganda to form a real opinion without more research than I care to do.

 

[The Don]

Like it or not, the man DID put Russian nukes within 90 miles of US soil. I'm so quick to forget that, either.

In response to the U.S. having hundreds of nukes on Turkish soil within a few miles of the U.S.S.R. But of course that's OK because they're "our" nukes.

At least show some consistency, it's either OK or not OK to put nukes adjacent to your cold war adversary via a 3rd party.

 

[zenith-nadir]

I just don't understand the illogical and frankly childish hardon America has for Castro. Castro isn't Kim Jong-il. Cuba does not threaten the region like North Korea threatens it's region. If America can kiss the Saudi's asses, with a straight face I might add, especially after the Saudis single-handedly created and funded the wave of islamofascism that is currently sweeping the globe why can't they make peace with Castro? He is no threat to America whatsoever. The only reason I can figure is purely political which has nothing to do with reality. Maybe America is still pissed that the CIA and "others" couldn't topple Castro, I dunno. Castro is in his late 70's, his brother Raul Castro is in his 70's too, maybe now is a good time for America to engage in a dialogue with Cuba and it's future leaders.

 

[aerocontrols]

When the rest of the USSR fell, Cuba didn't. I can only assume that Cuba was not as resented or repressive as the rest of the USSR.

Your descriptions of history always crack me up, AUP.

 

[Skeptic]

Your descriptions of history always crack me up, AUP.

Please tell me he didn't REALLY SAY that.

I suppose NK isn't that bad, either. After all, when the rest of the USSR fell, it didn't. Neither did Kaddafi or the Taliban, so they must be beloved by the people.

Anyway, to sum up:

AUP on the US:

If they don't want an invasion, you would have to kill so many people as to make the US even more of a pariah than it already is.

"Two legs--*cough*, *cough* the US *cough*--baaaaaaaad!"

AUP on Cuba:

f the people do hate Castro, then he would probably already have fallen, or have a regime that had to run like North Korea does. For all it's faults, I don't believe that Cuba is anything like NK.

"Four legs--*cough* *cough* communist dictatorship *cough*--gooooood!"

George Orwell on AUP:

there is a minority of intellectual pacifists, whose real though unacknowledged motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration for totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writing of the younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States.

 

[Mike B.]

Once again, ZN, you fail to appreciate what you get if you fight a war against someone who doesn't want you there. If the people do hate Castro, then he would probably already have fallen, or have a regime that had to run like North Korea does. For all it's faults, I don't believe that Cuba is anything like NK.

If they don't want an invasion, you would have to kill so many people as to make the US even more of a pariah than it already is. So may win Cuba, but you would lose a lot more than that in international reputation.

Isn't this whole thing kind of silly?...The US is NOT going to invade Cuba.

This is SOP for Castro, he has been warning of an immenent invasion of Cuba for 40 years now...