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God Should Be Mocked. <-- Note the period.

Beerina

Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
34,323
Terrorists torture boy


I submit people who worship a thug who allows this to happen are subhuman sycophants.

And yes, the kid could be lying out his ass, but stuff like this happens to children, and without doubt.
 
That sort of **** happenned (and still happen) with every major world religion. Human are able to the worst stuff. That is not a new knowledge.

Edited for breach of Rule 10.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar
 
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I thank you for agreeing with me by buttressing my point!
 
It does read a bit like like propaganda. Who knows?

Yes, but I deliberately left out the following qualifier, as it broke the flow.

"Of course, it could be mostly or all made up crap, but you still know stuff like this happens to children in many undoubtable cases."




I don't defend that. But it's a far cry from pulling out fingernails, nailing nails into one's thigh, and so on.

In either case, you just add support for the topic of this thread, thanks!
 
Terrorists torture boy


I submit people who worship a thug who allows this to happen are subhuman sycophants.

What do you think this boy and his father would think if they read you describing them as subhuman?

"The kidnappers called me on the phone and demanded that some prisoners that we had be released or they would slit his throat," Khidir's father says. "But I said no to the release. I would not put killers back out on the street that would hurt other Muslims. So I thought to myself, 'Let my son be a martyr.' "

I'm sure it's not the case, but your opening post makes it seem that you have no emotional reaction to this story other than: "Great! Another reason to bash religion!"

Another take on the story could be "Muslim police officer stands up to intimidation, even at the cost of his son."

Last December, nearly two years later, police in Taji, about 45 miles (70 kilometers) away, received a tip that terrorists were holding kidnapped children.

"We thought that it was just a tip to ambush us, but we considered the mission as a sacrifice," said Iraqi police Capt. Khalib Ali. "Either we find the children and free them or face the danger and take the risk."

Would you have gone in? Or would you have nuked them from orbit? -- the only way to be sure.
 
What do you think this boy and his father would think if they read you describing them as subhuman?

TBH, I couldn't do a better job at painting them as subhuman than the quotes you provided did.

I'm sure it's not the case, but your opening post makes it seem that you have no emotional reaction to this story other than: "Great! Another reason to bash religion!"

Another take on the story could be "Muslim police officer stands up to intimidation, even at the cost of his son."

Except notice the language there. He doesn't say "would hurt other people", but "would hurt other Muslims". So I have to, you know, wonder: if they'd stick to hurting Jews and Christians, would he be ok with putting them back on the street?

Also, while we're at language: martyr?? He's painting even his son's ordeal in religious wording.

Look, you may have noticed that I'm usually one of those defending muslims around here, but this is the kind of stuff that gives me the doubts. Not just about the Islam, but about any religion, really. It seems to me like the perfect example of how it taints, perverts, and defiles everything it touches. Suddenly it all isn't about justice, compassion, or anything, it's about "other Muslims" and "martyrs".
 
What the...? I thought this post was lost.
See later edit
 
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That sort of **** happenned (and still happen) with every major world religion. Human are able to the worst stuff. That is not a new knowledge.

Edited for breach of Rule 10.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar

How'd you beat the autocensor? Every time I cuss it's just asterisks and that's that.
 
I don't defend that. But it's a far cry from pulling out fingernails, nailing nails into one's thigh, and so on.

Is it?

"Omar Khadr [taken into US custody when he was 15 years old] was transferred to Guantánamo Bay in October 2002. He says that as soon as he arrived he was subjected to a range of torture and ill-treatment that included:

· being short-shackled by his hands and feet to a bolt in the floor and left for five to six hours; occasionally a US officer would enter the room to laugh at him;

· being kept in extremely cold rooms;

· being lifted up by the neck while shackled, and then dropped to the floor;

· being beaten by guards;

· having a finger pressed into a pressure point in his neck, causing severe pain and inability to breathe;

· being left short-shackled by guards in an interrogation room until he urinated on himself. Guards then poured a pine scented cleaning fluid over him and used him as a "human mop" to clean up the mess. He says that he was not provided with clean clothes for several days after this degradation."

more...

http://www.cageprisoners.com/campaigns.php?id=777

In either case, you just add support for the topic of this thread, thanks!

Is the "War on Terror" inspired by God?
 
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TBH, I couldn't do a better job at painting them as subhuman than the quotes you provided did.

Really?
You haven't said that he should have made a deal with the kidnappers. So what is your point? That he should have found another frame of reference from which to stand against the intimidation? How would he manage this without jumping out of his own skin?

Except notice the language there. He doesn't say "would hurt other people", but "would hurt other Muslims". So I have to, you know, wonder: if they'd stick to hurting Jews and Christians, would he be ok with putting them back on the street?

Except, it seems, you have to wonder and form a conclusion.

Also, while we're at language: martyr?? He's painting even his son's ordeal in religious wording.

He's a religious man. How else is he to paint the ordeal?

Certainly, a difficult choice (assuming he was actually in a position to release the prisoners -- heck, even without that assumption). He came to terms with the situation in a way which didn't require him to put greater risk upon his community in return for his son.

Would "hero" be a better word for his son? I don't see how that fits the being kidnapped part the ordeal. Call him a "victim"? Sure, he was a victim. "Collatoral cost", maybe? Isn't that a secular phrase for a sacrifice?

I think the word "martyr" can carry those concepts for religious people.

You seem to damn him for having a religious viewpoint and coming to terms with his situation (which he didn't choose) from that viewpoint -- not for any action. Or do you think he should have tried to release the prisoners?

Look, you may have noticed that I'm usually one of those defending muslims around here, but this is the kind of stuff that gives me the doubts. Not just about the Islam, but about any religion, really. It seems to me like the perfect example of how it taints, perverts, and defiles everything it touches. Suddenly it all isn't about justice, compassion, or anything, it's about "other Muslims" and "martyrs".

Please, the questions above are not rhetorical. How was this man supposed to act? Was he supposed to say: "I must state that my son died for secular reasons." Do you really think he had no sense of justice when he chose his community over his son? This wasn't compassion for his community? Do you really think that the only reason he did what he did was religious? Would no atheist have made such a choice?

He was a religious man, and reacted by choosing to support his community -- who are Muslims -- and to regard his son as a martyr -- ie: as one who died in the cause of fighting injustice, of which kidnapping is certainly an example.

Damn his actions, I can understand that. OTOH, it does seem heroicly unselfish. Maybe he should have chosen his son, and freed those prisoners. There's an argument for that -- I'm not sure which side I'm on.

But damn his world view, without damning his actions? That's strange.
 
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"Omar Khadr [taken into US custody when he was 15 years old] was transferred to Guantánamo Bay in October 2002. He says that as soon as he arrived he was subjected to a range of torture and ill-treatment that included:

· being short-shackled by his hands and feet to a bolt in the floor and left for five to six hours; occasionally a US officer would enter the room to laugh at him;

· being kept in extremely cold rooms;

· being lifted up by the neck while shackled, and then dropped to the floor;

· being beaten by guards;

· having a finger pressed into a pressure point in his neck, causing severe pain and inability to breathe;

· being left short-shackled by guards in an interrogation room until he urinated on himself. Guards then poured a pine scented cleaning fluid over him and used him as a "human mop" to clean up the mess. He says that he was not provided with clean clothes for several days after this degradation."
And here you illustrate the stupidity of Western Democracies with their free speech, free press and freedom of information. America's hands were tied when it came to covering their ass. Damn free speech and free press. The Soviets, ChiComs, North Koreans and others didn't have to put up with that crap. They just threw people by the millions into prison, tortured them and forced them into hard labor or killed them.

The citizens who eventually found out and didn't like it? If they complained they could use a little hard labor or bullet to the back of the head also.
 
I don't defend that. But it's a far cry from pulling out fingernails, nailing nails into one's thigh, and so on.

Is it?

"Omar Khadr [taken into US custody when he was 15 years old] was transferred to Guantánamo Bay in October 2002. He says that as soon as he arrived he was subjected to a range of torture and ill-treatment that included:

· being short-shackled by his hands and feet to a bolt in the floor and left for five to six hours; occasionally a US officer would enter the room to laugh at him;

· being kept in extremely cold rooms;

· being lifted up by the neck while shackled, and then dropped to the floor;

· being beaten by guards;

· having a finger pressed into a pressure point in his neck, causing severe pain and inability to breathe;

· being left short-shackled by guards in an interrogation room until he urinated on himself. Guards then poured a pine scented cleaning fluid over him and used him as a "human mop" to clean up the mess. He says that he was not provided with clean clothes for several days after this degradation."

more...

http://www.cageprisoners.com/campaigns.php?id=777

Yes. I would choose all that over having nails driven into my thighs and my fingernails ripped out.

But in any case, assuming all of this is true (interesting how we want to believe it's all true, depending on the "side", eh?), then...

Is the "War on Terror" inspired by God?

...apparently, which, again, supports this thread's position.
 

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