God is an outdated concept

[Nursedan]

I believe that the concept of God is obsolete by at least 1000 years. When people did not have the proper technology, it was essential to create myths about the origin of the universe, the Earth, and life in general. We know factually now, through science, that the universe began at a definite point. We know now what stars are, what the sun is and it's function etc etc. The point is, in archaic times, these concepts were unexplainable without some deity to "lord" over them. The sun and stars were themselves worshipped at some point.

A-theism is the only rational viewpoint, in my opinion. It regards the physical world as it is. It doesn't throw up it's hands and say "let God sort it out", or "God works in mysterious ways" when a valid question is asked - Atheism seeks the answer through scientific reasoning. There is nothing that has happened or that ever will happen that isn't explainable through the filter of the world as we know it. The concept of God is so far from rationality that it is self-insulating. "Blind faith" indeed.

How can those on this board who believe continue their belief in God when the questions the people had who originated the Bible and Christianity have been thoroughly answered using methods that are indisputable?

 

[Minarvia]

Welcome, Nursedan! I agree with that. I also think about how we are all born atheists. Nobody is born a god/s believer. It has to be indoctrinated or learned somehow.

 

[Trent Wray]

I would generally agree with this exception:

Until we are able to extend life indefinitely and "conquer death" ... the idea of a god awaiting the greeting of their consciousness/soul/spirit/etc after their death will probably continue to be a concept that even rational people might be inclined to hang onto for various reasons.

 

[Minarvia]

I would generally agree with this exception:

Until we are able to extend life indefinitely and "conquer death" ... the idea of a god awaiting the greeting of their consciousness/soul/spirit/etc after their death will probably continue to be a concept that even rational people might be inclined to hang onto for various reasons.

Maybe. But you know, hanging on to and really believing it are different things. I do think eventually, that unless an afterlife is proven to actually exist, humankind will, at least for the most part, cease to believe in it.

Do you think most will hang on? I'm not speaking of ALL people, but most.

 

[Trent Wray]

Maybe. But you know, hanging on to and really believing it are different things. I do think eventually, that unless an afterlife is proven to actually exist, humankind will, at least for the most part, cease to believe in it.

Do you think most will hang on? I'm not speaking of ALL people, but most.

No I don't think most will believe it. I think it would be an increasingly smaller number at some point that chooses to believe in an afterlife.

But then again, for those hoping there is "something more to life" ... if science and technological progress can't provide the "something more" ... and movies and fantasies don't do the trick ... then people are still likely to place their "need for the more" in something.

Although I think for the majority of people to keep believing in an afterlife and god(s), science and technology would have to "fail" them somehow. I can't envision how that would happen apart from a Terminator/Matrix type of scenario.

Unless people start to blame the neutrality of science if our current global community trends towards immorality. In that case, I can see the masses resorting back to religion for it's ethical and moral guidance/principles perhaps, and not just searching for answers for an "afterlife". In that sense, I could see a global religion taking shape where the former ones became obsolete in place of "the ultimate" version I suppose.

 

[qayak]

How can those on this board who believe continue their belief in God when the questions the people had who originated the Bible and Christianity have been thoroughly answered using methods that are indisputable?

You are expecting people to reason themselves out of something they never reasoned themselves into in the first place. Their belief in a god most likely came as a child. It came on the say so of someone they trusted and without any logic behind it. There was no way to test it and at that age they weren't interested in evidence or reason.

That is not a piece of information that is going to be discarded willingly or easily. It is a part of their very identity and when you expect them to question it, you are expecting them to question who they are and what their entire life has meant. It isn't likely to happen.

 

[Minarvia]

Unless people start to blame the neutrality of science if our current global community trends towards immorality. In that case, I can see the masses resorting back to religion for it's ethical and moral guidance/principles perhaps, and not just searching for answers for an "afterlife". In that sense, I could see a global religion taking shape where the former ones became obsolete in place of "the ultimate" version I suppose.

Call me cynical, but I can't ever see a "ultimate" version. Why? Because there will always be those who refuse to conform or want to be leaders themselves. In the words of a teacher I adored, he said there would "always be buttholes. Always." Ones who will be different or cause trouble just because they can.

This sounds trite compared to your full post, but I think there will always be...mavericks. I don't see a "ultimate" or "global" anything ever succeeding. At least not without many cracks. Or for long. Not unless the population on this planet drops by A LOT.

Great post, tho! Gives me food for thought.

 

[Trent Wray]

Call me cynical, but I can't ever see a "ultimate" version. Why? Because there will always be those who refuse to conform or want to be leaders themselves. In the words of a teacher I adored, he said there would "always be buttholes. Always." Ones who will be different or cause trouble just because they can.

This sounds trite compared to your full post, but I think there will always be...mavericks. I don't see a "ultimate" or "global" anything ever succeeding. At least not without many cracks. Or for long. Not unless the population on this planet drops by A LOT.

Great post, tho! Gives me food for thought.

Oh I don't think any "ultimate" thing will succeed. And I do like mavericks ---

 

[Nursedan]

You are expecting people to reason themselves out of something they never reasoned themselves into in the first place. Their belief in a god most likely came as a child. It came on the say so of someone they trusted and without any logic behind it. There was no way to test it and at that age they weren't interested in evidence or reason.

That is not a piece of information that is going to be discarded willingly or easily. It is a part of their very identity and when you expect them to question it, you are expecting them to question who they are and what their entire life has meant. It isn't likely to happen.

Well, I only partly agree - because I came into atheism only a few years ago, and I'm 27 right now. People do get smarter as they get older, and therefore more capable of critical thought. I suppose that would mean, to an atheist, that a people get older they get more entrenched in the myth.

That's kind of what puzzles me about religion - defending the indefensible and using open ended language as if it is an end. Like saying, "well, God works in mysterious ways", as if that is a valid response to criticism. Much harder to be an atheist and face reality. Hey, I guess that's it - it's just way more easy to be religious. Hmmmmm......

 

[Monketi Ghost]

You are expecting people to reason themselves out of something they never reasoned themselves into in the first place. *snip*

Correct. Belief in god is IMO essentially an emotional position, and logic doesn't usually trump such a position.

 

[Bikewer]

For some years, I have described religion and god-belief as an immature method of dealing with the world.
A big sky-daddy who knows all but won't tell us till later... Someone who will make everything right...Someday....
That sort of thing. Shut up and be good.

Humanist philosophy says we should stand up on our own two feet and take charge of our own destiny.

 

[Nursedan]

Then just call me Mr. Humanist! Is that the same as an Ayn Randist?

It would still be great to hear from some believers about my original question.

Thanks

 

[rorylee]

The Devil works in mysterious ways and his way of teaching humans is science, which is a winner for most to sin and not believe. Quite simple isn't it? what a better way for people to not believe in the Lord & God? but the fact is, God & the Lord wanted science, technology and so fourth to happen, so Earth, Heaven isn't boring. As Earth evolves, so does Heaven, but which can evolve faster? Which can wait on the other? Which can use the others? Which is the testing field?

Now can you see how that works? and OF COURSE it all had to start somewhere, just like us humans.

 

[Complexity]

The 'god' concept should have been killed at birth.

It is most unworthy of man.

 

[154]

Tell us how worthy you are.

 

[qayak]

Well, I only partly agree - because I came into atheism only a few years ago, and I'm 27 right now. People do get smarter as they get older, and therefore more capable of critical thought. I suppose that would mean, to an atheist, that a people get older they get more entrenched in the myth.

Your experience is not the experience of most . . . which is why, as an atheist, you are in the minority.

Humans are terrible at critical thinking, it takes a lot of training and practice. However, there are somethings that, in general, no one applies critical thinking to, and that is the body of evidence we gained as children from the say so of respected adults.

You also forget that, as people age, they tend to become more conservative and return to their earlier religious beliefs. It is not simply a matter of applying logic to a few silly beliefs. It is a matter of significantly changing who you are, your view of the world and, the foundation of your beliefs.

That's kind of what puzzles me about religion - defending the indefensible and using open ended language as if it is an end. Like saying, "well, God works in mysterious ways", as if that is a valid response to criticism. Much harder to be an atheist and face reality. Hey, I guess that's it - it's just way more easy to be religious. Hmmmmm......

It is only harder to be an atheist because we are applying critical thinking to our religious beliefs. If we didn't think about those beliefs and just assumed everything we were told was true, it would be easy for us, too.

As well, there is no feedback on incorrect religious beliefs. If everytime a religious person made an error, god smote them, you would see a whole lot more religious people thinking critically about their beliefs. But, what you have instead, is a system of errors, that has grown out of a long line of errors with no feedback for any of it. That tends to indicate to non-critical thinking humans that their beliefs are correct. Basically, no negative feedback = I have the right belief, where as atheists see the it as "no negative feedback because there is no god."

Same information, different interpretation. Both interpretations work equally well in everyday life.

 

[qayak]

Tell us how worthy you are.

Apparently, worthy enough to recognize that the morality taught in the bible, which, by the way, makes a great door stopper, is not nearly as just as that created by humans.

 

[Complexity]

Tell us how worthy you are.

I'm really, really worthy!

• I never question authority.
• I always wait for my betters to speak first.
• I'm gay but not celibate, so I'm not likely to embarrass you (unless you want me to).
• I assidually practice woo-ahimsa, being careful never to step on, squish, or otherwise injure innocent woo.
• I never mock, criticize, or indulge in sarcasm or irony.
• I speak simply and with brevity so that misunderstanding can be avoided.
• I often give money to causes that I regard as worthy without any expectation of repayment or reward.
• I am always patient with those whose thinking is unreliable, flawed, or unable to leap tall buildings.
• I am humble.
• 'We are unworthy!' is my personal motto, even though it came from a movie.

I'm certain that there are other qualities that I have or can quickly acquire that would enable you to overlook my many shortcomings and accept me into your service, but my limited mental abilities, not to mention my aforementioned humbleness, preclude their continued enumeration. Forgive me!

(Why is an insipid twit playing the straight man to me? He'd better be cute.)

 

[qayak]

Correct. Belief in god is IMO essentially an emotional position, and logic doesn't usually trump such a position.

I agree. An interesting study shows that the way to change someone's mind on this level is not to argue with them. Instead, get them to explain their position and as they do, they will see the errors in their reasoning and will change their mind on their own. Laws don't change emotional beliefs, critical thinking, without emotion, does.

 

[Towlie]

Welcome to the forum, Nursedan! That's a good summary of what many, perhaps most, of us here believe as well.

God has always been, in essence, the "God of the Gaps". He used to have a full time job but has had his hours cut back dramatically since the end of the Dark Ages. The time is long overdue to give him his gold watch and send him to the retirement home.