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Global Warming Scam

Floyd

New Blood
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
13
I have never been particularly interested in this issue but there is now so much media coverage about it, I thought I'd better do some research to find some answers.
I came across junkscience.com among others and read a few articles. This is where I currently stand:

1. The average temperature of the Earth has increased by around 0.6 C since 1880
2. At least half of this increase can be attributed to increased solar activity
3. CO2 is not a major factor in "greenhouse" gases or global warming
4. There is no evidence to suggest recent warming is due to man-made factors
5. The planet would generally be better off with a slight increase in temperature than a slight decrease
6. It is a waste of money and resources trying to cut emissions before gaining a better understanding of climate change

As I know this forum is filled to bursting point with intelligent and informed people, can you tell me if junkscience.com is a credible source, and do you disagree with any of the points above?
 
I recently saw a presentation by a scientist( Dr Karl Kruselnitski) where he showed a graph of the rise in global temperature and photos of the shrinking Arctic ice cap.
I am firmly convinced that global warming is real and has been caused by increased CO2 in the atmosphere. I can see no other explanation for the increased CO2 than the industrial activities of human beings.

The effects of global warming are likely to include a significant rise in sea levels, displacing 100s of millions of people. If you believe that this is nothing to worry about, then I think you are being silly.

The effects of global warming could also result in another ice age. It is all to do with so many variables that are completely unprecedented in the history of the planet.

The reason so many climatologists disagree is not because they doubt the reality of global warming, it is because their models put different emphasis on different variables.

There ya go, my relatively uninformed 2 cents.
 
Even if there is a a slight possibility that global warming is not happening (and I would say that is a very, VERY small probability), it would be safer to err on caution, since the effects on the medium and long terms of the models onb global warming are very, very, scary.
 
The short answer is no, JunkScience.com is not a credible source, and pretty much all of the statements from the OP are incorrect, though perhaps through no fault of your own, Floyd. Steven Millroy is a "scholar" affiliated with the Cato Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, and Fox News -- none of which are known for telling the truth about environmental issues. If you want the straight dope on global warming, I'd suggest www.realclimate.com, whose contributors are (*gasp!*) real climate scientists.
 
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The short answer is no, JunkScience.com is not a credible source, and pretty much all of the statements from the OP are incorrect, though perhaps through no fault of your own, Floyd. Steven Millroy is a "scholar" affiliated with the Cato Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, and Fox News -- none of which are known for telling the truth about environmental issues.

The majority of JunkScience.com's content is merely links to news stories. Stephen Milloy does do some editorial pieces, but for the most part it is refreshing to see source data and news items that present an alternate voice.

see also http://www.john-daly.com/ for a site that holds temperature records from weather stations worldwide. (as well as a jaundiced look at the religion of global warming :boxedin: )
 
From CFSM:

You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s.
piratesarecool4.jpg

As you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature.
 
I'd talk to Tobias if I were you, he knows a great deal about global warming.

Anybody who believes we are causing global warming is just silly or misinformed.

Buy big cars and let them run, only car pool if you need to and for goodness sakes enjoy life :)

Increase in water vapor is causing global warming. Maybe all the people who boil water are to blame!!!! according to their logic.....

GW is happening I would speculate, but it will cool and rewarm millions of times before the final burning. I would place more sense of urgency into trying to decide which brand of toilet paper to buy.

I hope my genes get off this rock eventually and if you do as well, please donate to the space program!
 
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I have never been particularly interested in this issue but there is now so much media coverage about it, I thought I'd better do some research to find some answers.
I came across junkscience.com among others and read a few articles. This is where I currently stand:

1. The average temperature of the Earth has increased by around 0.6 C since 1880

The average is the simplest, but also perhaps a misleading, indication of temperature rise. For one thing, that is over the last century. It does not indicate the extremes, for one things, such as the melting of permafrost, which has been frozen for, IIRC, something like 600,000 years, but is now melting. Great if you want wooly mammoth bones, but not if you are old and living in Europe, when a heat wave killed tens of thousands.

2. At least half of this increase can be attributed to increased solar activity

According to the majority of scientific opinion, not so.

3. CO2 is not a major factor in "greenhouse" gases or global warming

No, it is not, but it is the bit that is increasing by the biggest extent. Although a side effect could be the release of more potent gases due to the rising temperature.

4. There is no evidence to suggest recent warming is due to man-made factors

Yes, there is, read the IPCC report.

5. The planet would generally be better off with a slight increase in temperature than a slight decrease

The temperature has been remarkeably stable over the past ten thousand years, which just happens to co-incide with the explosion of civilisation.

6. It is a waste of money and resources trying to cut emissions before gaining a better understanding of climate change

The understanding of the climate is one of the most intensively studied (and scrutinised) topics today in science. There is very good understanding of how the climate basically works, and the understanding has been built up for over a century, when it was realised back then that Greenhouse gases were essential for the climate we live in today. Just as we need the gases to exist, we also don't want too many. Kind of like having a good diet that has fat, but not too much.

As I know this forum is filled to bursting point with intelligent and informed people, can you tell me if junkscience.com is a credible source, and do you disagree with any of the points above?

The thing they leave out is that this is just the start of the temperature rise. The economic consequences are already being felt, for example, in Australia, where an unprecedented drought is ocurring. The hottest August on record just happens to coincide with a grain harvest that is going to be about half what it should be.
 
... but for the most part it is refreshing to see source data and news items that present an alternate voice.
Yeah, I also get a kick out seeing the "alternate" views at answersingenesis.com and loosechange911.com.

see also http://www.john-daly.com/ for a site that holds temperature records from weather stations worldwide. (as well as a jaundiced look at the religion of global warming :boxedin: )
Funny, isn't it, how GW deniers (much like creationists and 9/11 conspiracy nuts) almost without exception have no real background or expertise in the fields they're criticizing, if they're not working for the petroleum industry? I looked at Daly's bio -- I'm not impressed.

As far as temperature records go, analyzing them is a non-trivial business, and I wouldn't put any stock in anything said about them by persons without the appropriate educational background. Even with an advanced degree in meteorology, I don't consider *myself* qualified to do the analysis.
 
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Ah, Buckaroo, could you please predict the weather for me for hallowe'en.
I want to have an outside a party and I don't wish for rain.
I'm in Toronto.
What, a meteorologist doesn't have the tools to do that? ;)

I would love to see the evidence that humans are causing global warming.
 
Ah, Buckaroo, could you please predict the weather for me for hallowe'en.
I want to have an outside a party and I don't wish for rain.
I'm in Toronto.
What, a meteorologist doesn't have the tools to do that? ;)
I'm not a meteorologist, nor am I completely convinced of the global warming thing, but I have always found this argument against global warming to be highly specious.

Let me put it in another context to demonstrate why:

General, will you please tell me how many troops you're going to lose this weekend and exactly what the battle will look like?

What? You can't do that? Then how are we supposed to trust that you can predict the course of the war at all?

pchams said:
I would love to see the evidence that humans are causing global warming.
It is my understanding that the question of whether global warming is occurring is completely separate from any cause of it.
 
I have never been particularly interested in this issue but there is now so much media coverage about it, I thought I'd better do some research to find some answers.
I came across junkscience.com among others and read a few articles. This is where I currently stand:

1. The average temperature of the Earth has increased by around 0.6 C since 1880
2. At least half of this increase can be attributed to increased solar activity
3. CO2 is not a major factor in "greenhouse" gases or global warming
4. There is no evidence to suggest recent warming is due to man-made factors
5. The planet would generally be better off with a slight increase in temperature than a slight decrease
6. It is a waste of money and resources trying to cut emissions before gaining a better understanding of climate change

As I know this forum is filled to bursting point with intelligent and informed people, can you tell me if junkscience.com is a credible source, and do you disagree with any of the points above?

junksc is a neocon site set up to pull in those of us who like to read/discuss/ hear about bad science so we can help others avoid it. They are NOT without an agenda and pretty much all of the items they trash are the opposite of junk?bad science - the conservatives just don't like to hear them.
 
I am so happy I will be dead before any of this will really matter.
 
1. The average temperature of the Earth has increased by around 0.6 C since 1880
However the temp increase at the poles -- where it matters most -- is much higher.
2. At least half of this increase can be attributed to increased solar activity
I doubt you can make a persuasive case that this is true. Be my guest.
3. CO2 is not a major factor in "greenhouse" gases or global warming
Huh?
4. There is no evidence to suggest recent warming is due to man-made factors
This is profoundly ignorant and/or an attempt at comedy. studies

can you tell me if junkscience.com is a credible source
It is the antithesis of a credible source.
 
I have never been particularly interested in this issue but there is now so much media coverage about it, I thought I'd better do some research to find some answers.
I came across junkscience.com among others and read a few articles. This is where I currently stand:

1. The average temperature of the Earth has increased by around 0.6 C since 1880

So the globe is in fact warming.

And as a_unique_person said, global averages are not all that matter. If the temperature in the arctic increases by 2oC while it decreases by the same amount elsewhere then the average would stay the same, but the ice would still melt.

2. At least half of this increase can be attributed to increased solar activity

As a_unique_person says, simply not true. The change in average energy recieved from the Sun over the last hundred years is insignificant compared with that from annual variations, and yet we can see no effects from these. The interesting observation that leads to these claims is that there seems to have been a correlation between the cycle of ice ages and the Sun's activity. No mechanism is known that could cause this, although the best current theory is that a more active Sun pushes the heliopause further out and so affects the number of cosmic rays that reach the Earth. This is very speculative however, and, even if true, would have very little relation to any small changes over the past century.

Another observation is that the Sun seems unsually peaceful compared to other similar stars, and it is quite possible that it went through periods of much higher activity in the past. This could explain past climate variations, but, again, is not related to the current changes.


3. CO2 is not a major factor in "greenhouse" gases or global warming

CO2 is nowhere near a potent as many other gases, but it is one of the most abundant, after oxygen and nitrogen. It is also the one that is being most affected by humans. Yes, other gases could have larger effects, but since we are not doing much to change their concentration we do not generally have to worry about them. CO2 is something we can see changing and something we know we can do something about.

4. There is no evidence to suggest recent warming is due to man-made factors

Again, as a_unique_person says, this is simply not true. Pirates aside, there is a very clear correlation between the amount of fossil fuels burnt, the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and the amount of global warming. Whether there is actual cause is not proven, but to say there is no evidence is just wrong.

5. The planet would generally be better off with a slight increase in temperature than a slight decrease

This is just plain ridiculous. We know the environment is relatively stable at the moment. Any change in temperature would change this, and all the models we have at the moment say this would cause massive change in climate that will have severe effects on all life. If we assume our models are hopelessly inaccurate then we cannot predict what will happen and can say nothing about how "good" it would be.

As an even more important point, better for who (or possibly whom)? The planet is a lump of rock and really doesn't care what it's temperature is. All life on it is adapted to the current environment, so any change will be for the bad, at least until things adapt.

6. It is a waste of money and resources trying to cut emissions before gaining a better understanding of climate change

By the time we understand it it will be too late. If we are even close to correct then we need to act as soon as possible. Even if we are not correct, can it really be a bad thing to have a cleaner environment and a more efficient way of life?

I have to add that I am firmly against all the fuss over global warming. We know it is happening because we can see it. The trouble is that even if it is entirely due to humans, I think it is too late to do anything about it. The climate is alredy warming and ice is already melting. Even if we stop producing any CO2 tomorrow it will not cool the climate down again until long after major changes have happened. In addtion, civilisation has reached a point where it cannot simply turn off all the factories and so there is no chance of us having a noticable effect in the near future. I would also say that as long as there is oil and coal in the ground, someone will dig it up and burn it. The west may be starting to embrace cleaner technology, but the developing world will always opt for the cheapest and easiest solution. Their response to us trying to stop them will always be "You did it, so why shouldn't we?".

I think there are much more important pollution issues that are ignored in the fuss over global warming. CO2 is not the ony product of industry. There are many pollutants, even just soot and dust, that have very clear links to illness and environmental damage. The debate over global warming leads to these things being largely ignored. I feel that the whole global warming movement actually causes more damage than it prevents by diverting resources from known, and preventable, pollution sources to unclear ones like CO2.
 
Ah, Buckaroo, could you please predict the weather for me for hallowe'en.
I want to have an outside a party and I don't wish for rain.
I'm in Toronto.
What, a meteorologist doesn't have the tools to do that? ;)

I would love to see the evidence that humans are causing global warming.

For the nth time, weather and climate are not the same thing.
 
Ah, Buckaroo, could you please predict the weather for me for hallowe'en.
I want to have an outside a party and I don't wish for rain.
I'm in Toronto.
What, a meteorologist doesn't have the tools to do that? ;)

Hee, hee. :) *Sits down in front of MM5 system*. Hmmm... looks like it might rain. But maybe not. Hey, what do I know, I wasn't a forecaster in grad school. I was a planetary atmospheres guy. Astrobiology 'n' such.

Seriously, though, Garrette is right. Weather and climate are not the same thing.

I would love to see the evidence that humans are causing global warming.

Ask and ye shall receive:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.ph...osub2sub-increase-is-due-to-human-activities/

Halloween parties ROOL.
 
Hmmm...Junkscience is junk. Isn't that the Cato Institute guy? Here's the deal...no credible climate scientist working rejects the hypothesis of global warming. There are arguments over the particulars, the extent to which human beings are causing the change, and the extent to which we can mitigate that change. Most now agree that CO2 placed in the atmosphere by human burning of fossil fuels is the root of that change. It's actually elegant in its simplicity and the science is actually quite tidy.

The reason there is debate over this issue, still, is because of a combination of fear, cognitive dissonance, political position, and economic interest. Were this a problem of pure science there would be little debate on the issue in the popular mindset.

Those are the basic facts - there's mountains, literally, of evidence. Plus one can see it with one's own eyes - simply look at a photo of Mont Blanc or Mt. Kilimanjaro today versus a century ago. The change is obvious. The science behind that change is the only question.
 

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