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Global Consciousness Project

digitalis

New Blood
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
2
Greetings I am soliciting skeptical comments about this website.

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/

Supposedly random number generators aren't random during periods of strong emotion or something. It says that events such as 9/11 have a physical and mesurable effect.

It seems like science. I guess? Could this be real or is someone making a joke? I saw this first on TV and I'm totally clueless. I need sage advice. Thank you in advance.

C. Redding
 
Good article. I'll bet that anyone could assign a signficant event to any spike, as long as it's a global coverage.

Something important's going on somewhere in the world at almost every moment, and since these "eggs" supposedly preface an event (apparently up to an hour is ok, according to the published results - although most of them are at 15 minutes.)

And if, by chance, there's no event you can point to... well... "I don't know why it spiked."

:D
 
Dragon said:
You could start with this Skeptic Report article, by our own Claus Larsen.

Or, since that article is just testimony, and doesn't mention statistics at all, which is the very basis of understanding the project, I'd recommend reading the project's website first.
 
I did. Want to see the criteria for choosing events?

In keeping with the exploratory nature of the experiment, there is not a unique criterion for accepting proposals as global events. Event selection is subjective and is guided by experience and consultation. Most events are considered global because they involve the attention or activity of many people around the world and figure prominently in news reports. Thus, a local event such as a natural disaster can be considered global if it gains global attention. Other criteria are used. A few astrological events are accepted because of their non-local (therefore, global) character. Certain prayers and meditations that involve relatively modest numbers of people are accepted because there is a global intention such as world peace.

Ok, so lets see. "There is not a unique criterion for accepting proposals as global events", hmm? "Event selection is subjective"... uh, huh... that's scientific... "a local event ... can be considered global because they ... figure prominently in news reports."

How about "A few astrological events are accepted", and "Certain prayers and meditations that involve relatively modest numbers of people are accepted..."

In other words, "If we have a spike, we can assign mathematical relevance to the spike by picking anything we want."

You can prove ANYTHING if your accepted data is completely arbitrary - and that's exactly what they're doing. Seeing a spike and picking something to support their "research". :D
 
jmercer said:

In other words, "If we have a spike, we can assign mathematical relevance to the spike by picking anything we want."


Where did that quote come from?


You can prove ANYTHING if your accepted data is completely arbitrary - and that's exactly what they're doing.

They said what constitutes the selection of an event is arbitrary, not the analysis and etc.
 
The first sentence beginning with "If we have a spike..." isn't a quote. I put it into quotation marks because I wanted to highlight it as a summary (or perhaps paraphrase) of my POV. I probably should have simply said this is a summary of how I view what they did, instead. So, to clear things up, here's a re-stated summary of my view on it after reading the information on their website:

If they have a spike, they can assign mathematical relevance to the spike by picking any event they want, as long as it happened within 1 hour or less of the spike. (And even some events that are impossible to prove the timing of are included, like random prayer by "relatively modest numbers of people"!)

Regarding your second comment about the selection of the event being arbitrary, but not the analysis... the fundamental hypothesis of this project is that significant events in the world affect random number generators.

By making the definition of significant events completely arbitrary, they are forcing the statistical evidence to support the hypthothesis and it's conclusion.

It's an utterly flawed experiment, deliberately using complex statistical jargon to hide the fact that the data has been intentionally manipulated to achieve a desired outcome.
 
jmercer said:

If they have a spike, they can assign mathematical relevance to the spike by picking any event they want, as long as it happened within 1 hour or less of the spike.

They choose the events a priori as far as I am aware.
 
From Roger Nelson, Director, GCP

I want to acknowledge that I like the notion of Global Consciousness, but that this idea is really an aesthetic speculation. I don't think we have real grounds to claim that the statistics and graphs representing the data prove the existence of a global consciousness.

That from the director of the project. What else do you need to know?
 
jzs said:
They choose the events a priori as far as I am aware.
I doubt they chose 9/11 a priori.

Funnily enough, the 9/11 spike started (from memory) 2 hours before the attacks and disappeared an hour after. IOW, it was unrelated to the attack.
 
I saw no statement about the events being chosen a priori. Where did you see that documented, jzs? And even so - since they control the set of applicable events and can expand it to include anything - I still don't see how choosing one a priori would change what I said.

I will admit this, though - without speculating as to why, it's intriguing that a series of random number generators would "spike" that frequently over a period of time, no matter what the cause.

Granted, there's really no such thing as a true random number generator and yes - statistically speaking, spikes will occur - but this seems like an awful lot of them.

They don't say what the mechanism of the RNG is. All RNG's use a "seed" value to begin their generation from - hopefully they were intelligent enough to use a wide range of seeds. If they did use a wide range, then the "spikes" really are interesting. If not, then using a single seed is a likely culprit for the explanation.

RichardR, thanks for finding that quote... pretty much puts the whole thing in it's proper place. :)
 
RichardR said:
From Roger Nelson, Director, GCP

That from the director of the project. What else do you need to know?

I interpret that to mean he is being cautious in his comments by saying they don't prove the existence. He's not saying that they aren't evidence for the existence.
 
jmercer said:
I saw no statement about the events being chosen a priori.


It depends on the event. For regularly scheduled things, like New Years, or Christmas, or similar things.


They don't say what the mechanism of the RNG is.


They do here.


RichardR, thanks for finding that quote... pretty much puts the whole thing in it's proper place. :)


If he included what came directly after that quote, you'd see that the director was being cautious in his comments by saying that it doesn't prove a global consciousness, but is evidence.

The full quote


I want to acknowledge that I like the notion of Global Consciousness, but that this idea is really an aesthetic speculation. I don't think we have real grounds to claim that the statistics and graphs representing the data prove the existence of a global consciousness. On the other hand, we do have strong evidence of anomalous structure in what should be random data, and clear correlations of these unexplained departures from expectation with well-defined events that are of special importance to people.
 
jzs said:
If he included what came directly after that quote, you'd see that the director was being cautious in his comments by saying that it doesn't prove a global consciousness, but is evidence.
Yes, but only "evidence of anomalous structure in what should be random data", not evidence of global consciousness. Even if the date weren't cherry picked (which they are), correlation is not causation. They have found nothing, really. What a waste of time.
 
Thank you again, RichardR, for beating me to it. :) And jzs, the arbitrary nature of what they've chosen to correlate the spikes to makes it trivial to create the illusion of significance.

Regarding your responses to me, jzs:

"It depends on the event" when speaking of choosing things "a priori" simply adds to the arbitrary nature of what they did. There's no consistency.

Thanks for pointing out the mechanism. Since all three RNG types use the same mechanism ("All three use quantum-indeterminate electronic noise"), and there's an unusual number of simultaneous (or near-simultaneous) spikes... I find this a fascinating bit of information. Perhaps quantum-indeterminate electronic noise isn't quite as random as everyone thinks.

Assuming that the spikes aren't statistical artifacts of some kind, trying to link it to some global consciousness nonsense may be obscuring something more fundamentally interesting about our universe.
 
If you read thru their drek you will find that RNG's are not effected by distance, time, mass of people or intent. That is to say that no control is possible. To explain the effect they must posit these characteristics, if these charactaristics are posited there is nothing.
 
RichardR said:
Yes, but only "evidence of anomalous structure in what should be random data", not evidence of global consciousness.

Evidence of anomalous structure in what should be random data ... which correspond to certain events.
 
Ed said:
If you read thru their drek you will find that RNG's are not effected by distance, time, mass of people or intent. That is to say that no control is possible. To explain the effect they must posit these characteristics, if these charactaristics are posited there is nothing.

Since you have read through the drek, could you show us where they say that the RNG's are not effected by distance, time, mass of people or intent?

And what would a control be in this case, Ed?
 
jzs said:
Since you have read through the drek, could you show us where they say that the RNG's are not effected by distance, time, mass of people or intent?

And what would a control be in this case, Ed?

No, I won't read thru it again. Do a search and find one of the many threads here that discuss it.

Some direct quotes are here, do a search:

“These anomalies can be demonstrated with the operators located up to thousands of miles from the laboratory, exerting their efforts hours before or after the actual operation of the devices.”

Distance is not a factor.

These random devices also respond to group activities of larger numbers of people, even when they are unaware of the machine's presence.

Intent is not a factor


Such cumulative deviation graphs are found to be quite operator specific
and hence are referred to as "signatures." Figure 4 shows such signatures for
a few of the many other operators working on this same experiment. Some
operators achieve PK results in only one direction, some in neither, some in
both, and some show inverted results. The PK+ and PK- achievement pattern

Pixie mixa did a deconstruction which I quote in full:

"I've been reading two of the PEAR papers:

Information and Uncertainty: 25 Years of Remote Perception Research and
Evidence for Consciousness-Related Anomalies in Random Physical Systems

I haven't finished yet; the latter paper is only sixteen pages but contains statistical analysis which requires checking, while the former is 74 pages and is heavy on jargon. I can at this point raise a few concerns:

In Evidence for Consciousness:

1. Several key figures are missing from the paper. This may have occurred when it was prepared for the web; whatever the reason, it means the paper is seriously flawed as it stands.
2. The paper discusses a methodology for judging the quality of a parapsychological experiment, and then moves on to drawing conclusions based on this evaluation. The actual results of this evaluation are nowhere to be found.
3. The paper focuses on three studies; the one it finds most interesting is a study performed by Jahn and Dunne. Jahn and Dunne are colleagues of the authors of this paper and have published a number of joint papers. Curiously, the authors, Radin and Nelson, neglect to mention this, even though you find one of these papers referenced in the footnotes.Quite frankly, if the paper had been submitted for publication in this form, any conscientious referee would have rejected it.

With Information and Uncertainty, the problems are slightly different. Even in the abstract we are bombarded with jargon; for a moment I thought I was reading Alan Sokal's Transgressing the Boundaries: Toward a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity again.

quote: The possibility that this increased emphasis on objective quantification of the phenomenon somehow may have inhibited its inherently subjective expression is explored in the contexts of contemporary signal processing technologies and ancient divination traditions.

Well, many scientific papers are hard to read; this is not to say they may not be valuable. But one soon begins to wonder if the experimenters are deliberately trying to produce bad science:

quote: The agents, who in all the formal experiments were known to the percipients...

In other words, the test was not blinded in any way.

quote: While no explicit tactical instructions were given, an attitude of playfulness was encouraged and emphasis was placed on enjoyment of the experience, rather than on achievement per se.

Playfulness having been well-demonstrated as a useful experimental too.

quote: No systematic records were maintained on the relative effectiveness of the various personal strategies deployed by the participants in their approach to the task, or on any of their psychological or physiological characteristics.

Not keeping records also being a popular tool of experimental science.

Here's a doozy:

quote: Furthermore, although limiting the extracted information to the 30 specified binary descriptors minimized the reporting task for the participants, it precluded utilization of other potentially relevant information in the transcripts, such as specific colors, textures, architectures, or any other details not covered by the questions. These shortcomings were partially offset by the continued requirement that percipients first generate free-response descriptions from which the descriptor responses were then derived. In this way, the data were preserved in a format suitable for subsequent human judge evaluation as a complementary method of assessment; it also was intended to retain the spontaneity of the PRP experience. Nonetheless, it became evident that after several experiences with the descriptor utilization, many participants tended to limit their attention and descriptions to those features that they now knew were specific to the questions. Despite these acknowledged limitations, the program continued to collect additional data, and also instituted means of assessing the effectiveness of the individual descriptors in constructing the scores. This was accomplished by incorporating a variety of subroutines into the scoring algorithms that compounded descriptor performance in the form of sums of the number of the times each descriptor was correctly answered “yes” and how many times it was correctly answered “no,” again adjusted for a priori probabilities of occurrence.

In other words, the experiment was not proceeding the way the experimenters wished, so they changed the rules and kept going! Then things start to get really bad:

quote: The failure of the FIDO experiments to enhance the declining PRP yield prompted the PEAR researchers to look elsewhere for the source of the problem. One of the laboratory’s human/machine studies had indicated that operator pairs of opposite sex, working together with a shared intention, produced stronger effects than same-sex pairs or individual operators. This, in turn, had led to a comprehensive examination of nine of PEAR’s human/machine databases, which were found to display significant gender-related differences in individual operator performance.

The old grasping-at-straws approach, as exemplified by Galileo and Milliken.

quote: Although there was reasonably good agreement among the six scoring recipes, the overall results of these distributive data were totally indistinguishable from chance, despite the fact that from an impressionistic standpoint several of the individual trials appeared to be successful.

In other words: nothing was happening, even though it looked like it was if you had no understanding of probability or experimental method.

quote: The substantial difference between the yields of the ex post facto and ab initio data, however, did raise some concern that the former, on which the descriptor questions and methodology initially had been based, could have introduced a spurious score inflation into the composite database.

But, even with these concerns:

quote: Given the systematic deterioration of the experimental yield,

that is, as they tightened the experimental protocol, the number of positive hits dropped off

quote: further generation of data was suspended pending a clearer understanding of the underlying problem. Our approach to this challenge was to return to the original ex post facto data, which had survived the onslaught of a battery of human judges and an armada of analytical methods without appreciable damage, and use it as a basis for comparing the relative effectiveness of the various encoding and analytical techniques on the apparent yield of a given set of trials.
Since the high-quality data doesn't bear out their expectations, they decide to use to low-quality data instead. They also seem to be surprised that subjectivity affects the result:

quote: If anything, the subjectivity inherent in the distributive encoding actually appeared to be confounding the experimental yield without benefit to the analytical process.

Or possibly not. Can anyone tell me with any certainty what that sentence is supposed to mean?

quote: It also is curious that these three judges agreed on the correct match of only one of the 31 trials.

Yes, "curious" is one term for this result. Here's the worst I've found so far:

quote: The evidence acquired in the early remote perception trials had raised profound questions in the minds of the PEAR researchers, similar, no doubt, to those of the countless others who, over the course of history, had experienced first-hand the validity of Paracelsus’ remarkable claim.

This simply has no place in anything purporting to be a scientific paper. But despite this alarming bit of brain-failure, they proceed:

quote: The possibility that ordinary individuals can acquire information about distant events by these means, even before they take place, challenges some of the most fundamental premises of the prevailing scientific world view. Yet, difficult as it may be at times, the true spirit of science requires humility in the face of experimental evidence, even when, or especially when, that evidence suggests that our existing models of reality may be wrong, or at least incomplete.

In other words, they are assuming the existence of the effect they have set out to test. This is not generally regarded as helpful. Actually, maybe the "Paracelsus" quote wasn' the worst. Here's something that brought me up short:

quote: Yet, like so much of the research in consciousness-related anomalies, replication, enhancement, and interpretation of these results proved elusive. As the program advanced and the analytical techniques became more sophisticated, the empirical results became weaker. It appeared as if each subsequent refinement of the analytical process, intended to improve the quality and reliability of the “information net,” had resulted in a reduction of the amount of raw information being captured. This diminution of the experimental yield prompted extensive examination of numerous factors that could have contributed to it, but after exploring and precluding various possible sources of statistical or procedural artifact, we concluded that the cause of the problem most likely lay somewhere in the subjective sphere of the experience.



In other words:

1. We performed an experiment with lousy controls and indifferent analytical methods and got a strong positive result.
2. Every time we tighten the controls or refine the analysis, the result gets statistically weaker.
3. Therefore the problem lies "somewhere in the subjective speher of the experience".

I dunno. Ya think? You don't think it may indicate that the positive results are somehow related to poor experimental control and poor analytical methods? Evidently not:

quote: As we pondered this paradox, we became cognizant of a number of subtler, less quantifiable factors that also might have had an inhibitory effect on the experiments, such as the laboratory ambience in which the experiments were being conducted. For example, during the period in which the FIDO data were being generated, we were distracted by the need to invest a major effort in preparing a rebuttal to an article critical of PEAR’s PRP program. Most of the issues raised therein were irrelevant, incorrect, or already had been dealt with comprehensively elsewhere, and had been shown to be inadequate to account for the observed effects. Notwithstanding, preparation of a systematic refutation deflected a disproportionate amount of attention from, and dampened the enthusiasm for, the experiments being carried out during that time. Beyond this, in order to forestall further such specious challenges, it led to the imposition of additional unnecessary constraints in the design of the subsequent distributive protocol. Although it is not possible to quantify the influence of such intangible factors, in the study of consciousness-related anomalies where unknown psychological factors appear to be at the heart of the phenomena under study, they cannot be dismissed casually. Neither can they be interpreted easily.

In other words: while we were busy addressing our previous stuff-ups, our latest experiment went to Hell. Further, tight experimental control places "unnecessary constraints" on our research, and this "intangible factor" is inhibiting the "phenomena under study" .No, look, I'm sorry, you're wrong. If this is supposed to be an example of good parapsychology, the bad stuff must be truly mind-boggling!

__________________Read my shiny new blog! It's still utterly pointless and boring, but it looks much nicer. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
12-13-2002 08:56 PM"

Frankly, a paper (or papers) as willfully opaque as the ones produced in connection with this work are an embaressment.


I have no idea how you control for anything given their charactarization of the nature of the effect.
 

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