Gag Order

[cozmo236]

If this is discussed elsewhere on the board forgive me as I am a recent member. On the Loose Change forum I've been going back and forth recently with "Terrorcell" on the subject of Edward Felt's phone call from United Flight 93. He claims that there has been a gag order placed on John Shaw, the operator who actually took Felt's call, and on Glenn Cramer, the supervisor. "Terrorcell" goes on to imply that he contacted Shaw and Cramer directly and that is his source for the gag order claim. I asked him to provide me with their contact information and he referred me to this board and then made an odd comment that I could be "that inbred troy from west va" for all he knew and he wouldn't provide with their contact information. I have no idea what the troy remark is supposed to mean but that's beside the point. Anyone's help in this matter of this supposed gag order would be appreciated.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Can't help with the contact details, but "Troy from VA" was a poster that lasted a very short time here before being banned for being abusive to people. He's since taken that abuse on the road to LCF and other places. Unfortunately he supports that 9/11 was the product of an Al Qaeda plot, and aims his attacks at those that follow the conspriacy theories. Most of us prefer to use reason and logic to expose those for what they are, Troy is little more that a troll and a hate monger, but his existance blights those of us that fail to see an reason to employ such tactics. The irony that many 9/11 CTs do use those exact same tactics against us seems to fall totally on blind eyes however.

 

[Calcas]

"Terrorcell" from lcf is actually a member here (believe it or not.)

His name here is "TC329" and he has a number of posts. He's mostly into FL93 and Shanksville.

Feel free to go to the members list and "find" his posts.

They're pretty amusing.

 

[T.A.M.]

Terrorcell was probably told by them that they did not want to discuss it, and from that illogically, and in good truther for, deduced that this was a "gag order".

TAM

 

[LashL]

If this is discussed elsewhere on the board forgive me as I am a recent member. On the Loose Change forum I've been going back and forth recently with "Terrorcell" on the subject of Edward Felt's phone call from United Flight 93. He claims that there has been a gag order placed on John Shaw, the operator who actually took Felt's call, and on Glenn Cramer, the supervisor. "Terrorcell" goes on to imply that he contacted Shaw and Cramer directly and that is his source for the gag order claim. I asked him to provide me with their contact information and he referred me to this board and then made an odd comment that I could be "that inbred troy from west va" for all he knew and he wouldn't provide with their contact information. I have no idea what the troy remark is supposed to mean but that's beside the point. Anyone's help in this matter of this supposed gag order would be appreciated.

Welcome, cozmo236.

1) I would not believe anything that Terrorcell says (let alone anything he merely implies) without legitimate, verifiable evidence.

2) If he had any evidence at all of this alleged "gag order", you can bet that he would be shouting it from the rooftops and posting it on every conspiracy site on the internet.

3) The "gag order" meme appears to be an invention of some of the die hard conspiracy fantasists. Lots of them refer to it in passing, but none of them has ever presented a scintilla of evidence to prove that any such order exists.

This is common among conspiracy fantasists: one of them exaggerates and/or misinterprets something, it gets passed along and further exaggerated and further misinterpreted, and then repeated on numerous conspiracy fantasist websites. Kind of in the same way as urban legends get to be what they are.

Here's a hypothetical: A conspiracy fantasist calls up one of the men on the telephone and starts grilling him about what he knew, and the man tells him, "I'm sorry, I can't talk to you right now" or "I'm sorry, I have nothing to say to you" or "I'm sorry, I just can't talk about this" to get the caller off the phone - quite correctly, since this is some random stranger calling him out of the blue and asking him about a very traumatic event.

The conspiracy fantasist reports to his fellow fantasists that "he said he couldn't talk to me", which conspiracy fantasists morph into, "he's under orders not to talk", followed by "the FBI ordered him not to talk - he's under a gag order".

That's how a lot of the conspiracy theories morph and evolve - speculation, bad research, misunderstanding facts and evidence, misinterpreting facts and evidence, and outright deliberate distortion and lies.

4) "Troy in VA" is a rather strange person who seems to have made it a hobby to ridicule the Loose Change boys in videos that he posts on YouTube or Google Video. He was a member here for only a very short time and was quickly banned, for advocating violence and other bad behaviour, if memory serves correctly. He was also a member of the Loose Change forum, and has numerous sockpuppets there as well.

 

[Gravy]

There is no reason to believe anything Terrorcell/TC329/Dominick says unless he can back it up with evidence. He's a troubled fantasist with a history of making false and bizarre claims.

John Shaw:
http://www.post-gazette.com/nation/20020911shaw0911p9.asp
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_90823.html

This is akin to Jason Bermas claiming that FDNY and NYPD members must be subject to threats because they don't want Loose Change idiots calling them.

ETA: from Debunk911myths:

Ed Felt's call has also been subject of debate, with some believing that he mentioned sounds of an explosion and saw white smoke. The "explosion" and "smoke" are myths.

Jere Longman reports in a March 2002 New York Times article, "the 911 dispatcher, John Shaw, and others who have heard the tape, including Mr. Felt's wife, Sandra Felt, say he made no mention of smoke or an explosion when he said, We're going down.[8]​

 

[Cheers]

More interesting is the gag order on Sibel Edmonds. Is that made up by terrorcell too?

 

[Gravy]

Cheers, Cheers. Quite an abrupt introduction here.

More interesting is the gag order on Sibel Edmonds. Is that made up by terrorcell roo?

Completely unrelated. Please start a thread if you have a different subject to discuss.

 

[Cheers]

Cheers, Cheers. Quite an abrupt introduction here.
Completely unrelated. Please start a thread if you have a different subject to discuss.

The thread is titled "gag order". I can pass comment without a non moderator telling me not too.

 

[Cheers]

arcticbeacon.citymaker.com/articles/article/1518131/18047.htm


"However, of importance, is a sometimes forgotten but most revealing call from Edward Felt, made frantically from a bathroom at 9:59 am. Felt spoke to operator Glen Cramer, saying he heard an explosion, saw white smoke and that the plane was going down.

Subsequently, , the FBI has put a gag order on Cramer for national security reasons, not allowing him to speak publicly or privately about the phone call he received from Felt."

This from Greg Szymanski

 

[T.A.M.]

Oh I see we have another antagonistic newbie among us.

He didn't tell you what to do CHEERS, he asked you to do something, out of respect for the OP (The title is general, but the OP makes it quite clear what is being talked of).

TAM

 

[T.A.M.]

arcticbeacon.citymaker.com/articles/article/1518131/18047.htm


"However, of importance, is a sometimes forgotten but most revealing call from Edward Felt, made frantically from a bathroom at 9:59 am. Felt spoke to operator Glen Cramer, saying he heard an explosion, saw white smoke and that the plane was going down.

Subsequently, , the FBI has put a gag order on Cramer for national security reasons, not allowing him to speak publicly or privately about the phone call he received from Felt."

This from Greg Szymanski

You mean this guy

http://www.wingtv.net/thorn2006/szymanski.html

Yup, real trustworthy apparently. You know its bad when your own crowd of kooks dont trust you.

TAM

 

[SDC]

arcticbeacon.citymaker.com/articles/article/1518131/18047.htm


"However, of importance, is a sometimes forgotten but most revealing call from Edward Felt, made frantically from a bathroom at 9:59 am. Felt spoke to operator Glen Cramer, saying he heard an explosion, saw white smoke and that the plane was going down.

Subsequently, , the FBI has put a gag order on Cramer for national security reasons, not allowing him to speak publicly or privately about the phone call he received from Felt."

This from Greg Szymanski

You need a better source than that to make the story probable, or even remotely possible. Got any less tendentious sources?

 

[Cheers]

Another article

newsmine.org/archive/9-11/flight93-ua/riddle-hijacked-get-crash-site.txt

"Glenn Cramer, the emergency supervisor who answered it, said on the day: "He was very distraught. He said he believed the plane was going down.

"He did hear some sort of an explosion and saw white smoke coming from the plane, but he didn't know where. And then we lost contact with him." Glenn Cramer has now been gagged by the FBI."

 

[Cheers]

You need a better source than that to make the story probable, or even remotely possible. Got any less tendentious sources?

It is far better than Gravy's source. Mine was written by a journalist, not a hobbyist debunker.

 

[Gravy]

arcticbeacon.citymaker.com/articles/article/1518131/18047.htm


"However, of importance, is a sometimes forgotten but most revealing call from Edward Felt, made frantically from a bathroom at 9:59 am. Felt spoke to operator Glen Cramer, saying he heard an explosion, saw white smoke and that the plane was going down.

Subsequently, , the FBI has put a gag order on Cramer for national security reasons, not allowing him to speak publicly or privately about the phone call he received from Felt."

This from Greg Szymanski

Greg Szymanski could hardly be a less rational, less reliable "journalist." Please see my post #6, which cites John Shaw, who took Felt's call, and Felt's wife, as saying that no explosion or smoke was reported by Felt.

I cited three sources of interviews with Shaw, showing that he was not under a gag order. You cite two crackpots who say he is, with no backup. I win. Next.

 

[T.A.M.]

Too bad the original link to the article placed ad newsmine.org is not available now.

TAM

 

[SDC]

It is far better than Gravy's source. Mine was written by a journalist, not a hobbyist debunker.

OK, journalists... Some of my best friends are journalists. That said, some of my father's last words to me (he was a scientist, well known in a relatively narrow field) always come to mind: "don't believe newspapers. They never get it right."

"Hobbyist debunker..." well, some of us garden, or birdwatch. That said, some of the greatest scholarship has been done by enthusiastic, unaffiliated amateurs.

In short, I see no reason to privilege professional journalists over amateur enthusiasts.

And this guy Szymanski provides no reason to trust him.

 

[332nd]

It is far better than Gravy's source. Mine was written by a journalist, not a hobbyist debunker.

The National Enquirer has journalist too.

 

[Gravy]

It is far better than Gravy's source. Mine was written by a journalist, not a hobbyist debunker.

A journalist? Here are Szymanski's last three archived articles:

Slats Learned True Anti-Christ System Is The Papacy From Reading Bible While Building Replica NWO Coliseum In Kansas Corn Field

Freedom fighter Slats Grobnik has been holed-up at a Kansas farm for the last six months, contemplating his journey to save America while building an exact replica of the Roman Coliseum to protest the Vatican-led New World Order.

Besides working on the Coliseum, Slats is trying to figure out the truth about the Anti-Christ.

"I think I'll use the Bible as my true source because before you have to understand and believe in Jesus Christ before understanding the Anti-Christ," said Slats, referring people to this informative video about Anti-Christ delusions.

Does Bush, the Black Pope, Larry King and Alex Jones Have the Guts to take this Vatican Quiz?

In this Confession to the Jesuits No. 35, we present a multiple choice test for Jesuit Gen. Fr. Hans Kolvenbach and the Satanic hierarchy of the Vatican to fill-out and send back to the Arctic Beacon.

Confession to the Jesuits No.34: Is the Society of Jesus Planning Another Staged Hollywood Fantasy Mother Mary Siting?

In this Confession to the Jesuits NO.34, Preacher M.L. Knox reminds us of Fatima, calling it the biggest "light-show" that the S.J. boys (Jesuits) whooped up 90 years ago and it was the greatest 'apparition' that their witchcraft had ever produced."

Knox, a Bible-believing Christian who detests Satan worship, also reminds us that "this apparition has been one of the greatest forces of our time for the coming one-world religion of the Anti-Christ and False Prophet."

My sources are actual journalists, Cheers. Please learn the difference.