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Fuel Prices...

zenith-nadir

Illuminator
Z
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
4,482
Boo Hoo Hoo...now we have to pay $3.50 a gallon...the sky is falling...the sky is falling...SOS! save our SUVs Mr. Bush! ;)

Meanwhile in Holland it's $6.48 USD a gallon, $5.80 USD in Sweden, $5.79 USD in Britain, $4.24 USD in Japan...(cite). $3.50/Gal is getting off easy!

{edited to add}

(heres a cool link gasbuddy.com )
 
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There are other factors.

How far does the average Sweede drive to work? 30 - 50 miles for me depending on what day it is, thats one way. Thats not at all unsusal for a American.

What percentage of Sweedes have access to public transportation? I have no other option but to drive to work.

Gas prices in other countries are completely unrelated to the level of hardship it causes here.
 
Anti_Hypeman said:
What percentage of Sweedes have access to public transportation? I have no other option but to drive to work.
.
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Ding ding ding!

Wouldn't it be cool if there were a rail system that worked in places outside of the northeast and the suburbs of Chicago?

I live in a a city of 50K and work 40 miles away in an area where the population is 125K.

In Europe, these would be connected by convenient rail service, and I wouldn't have to drive to work every day.
 
zenith-nadir said:
So do many people around the globe. Not everyone has access to cheap, convenient mass transit systems.
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But most of the people in the areas you cited in the opening post do.

And most of the people in the areas that require lengthy commutes do. In the third world countries that lack public transit systems, most commutes are the sort that can be done on foot or on bicycle. The United States is almost unique in the amount of driving required per capita, and therefore it is almost unique in the degree to which fuel prices for personal vehicles directly impacts personal spending.
 
drkitten said:
But most of the people in the areas you cited in the opening post do.
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People own cars and trucks in Europe just like they own cars and trucks in the US. They have to pay for gas to operate those vehicles. IMO this mass transit aside is not really relevant,.. especially in a commerical context where you can't ship TVs, textiles, foodstuffs and furniture on streetcars or subways.

drkitten said:
The United States is almost unique in the amount of driving required per capita, and therefore it is almost unique in the degree to which fuel prices for personal vehicles directly impacts personal spending.
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It's a given that Americans travel further each day than folks in many other countries. It's the choice of personal vehicle that impacts personal spending. Look at the Ford Escape 18mpg, Ford F150 Pickup 14mpg, BMW X5 15mpg, Buick Rendezvous 18mpg, Cadillac Escalade 15mpg, Chevrolet Tahoe 15mpg, Dodge Durango 14mpg, GMC Envoy 14mpg, Jeep Grand Cherokee 14mpg...how many of those do you see every day going to work? ;)
 
To be fair, while a lot of those gas guzzlers are just gas guzzlers out of stupidity, a lot of US gas guzzlers are that way because of EPA laws which not only hurt gas mileage, but hurt the environment
 
Anti_Hypeman said:
There are other factors.

How far does the average Sweede drive to work? 30 - 50 miles for me depending on what day it is, thats one way. Thats not at all unsusal for a American.

What percentage of Sweedes have access to public transportation? I have no other option but to drive to work.

Gas prices in other countries are completely unrelated to the level of hardship it causes here.
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Seems like poor planing on your part.
 
I could take the rail/bus combo to work (for lack of a metro going to our side of the island...grrrr), but it would take nearly 2 hours to get to work rather than the 30-45 minutes it takes now. Who has that kind of time? I really wish they'd build a metro, but it doesn't seem to be on the horizon at the moment.

(Of course, if a lot of other people could do that combo, it would only take me 15 minutes to get there. Meh.)

ETA: Gas here in Montreal is about $1.17/liter at the moment. Paid $52.00CDN to fill the tank on the Hyundai last night. I'd love to get one of those little Smart Cars...maybe someday when the price goes down.
 
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zenith-nadir said:
People own cars and trucks in Europe just like they own cars and trucks in the US.
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But typically use them substantially less, because they have effective mass-transit.

They have to pay for gas to operate those vehicles.
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But because they operate them less, they pay less in total.

It's a given that Americans travel further each day than folks in many other countries.
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Well, I'm glad that you acknowledge this. This, in turn, means that fuel prices have a greater impact on Americans.....
 
drkitten said:
But typically use them substantially less, because they have effective mass-transit.



But because they operate them less, they pay less in total.



Well, I'm glad that you acknowledge this. This, in turn, means that fuel prices have a greater impact on Americans.....
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Alternatevely one could find a job closer to home or a home closer to the job.
 
Grammatron said:
Alternatevely one could find a job closer to home or a home closer to the job.
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One could. If fuel prices continue to rise, one probably will. But there's 50+ years of infrastructure development in the United States to support a suburb culture with long commutes that didn't happen in Europe. Undoing those 50+ years of development will require a substantial investment of time, energy, resources, etc. -- a "major impact" on US society.

One way of thinking about it. If gas prices world-wide tripled, what percentage of Europeans would have to move from their current homes? What percentage of Americans would? I strongly suspect that fewer Europeans would be forced to move, and I attribute that almost directly to the well-established public transit system.
 
Grammatron said:
Alternatevely one could find a job closer to home or a home closer to the job.
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Were it so easy.

How exactly does a dockworker, say, move closer to his job when his wages don't allow him to buy a home near his job? And how does he find a job doing dockwork not near the ocean?

ETA: and then of course there is the whole issue of his spouse and where she works, and where the kids go to school, etc. Upshot is that here in the states we are often constrained to these long commutes. No planning will alleviate this.
 
roger said:
Were it so easy.

How exactly does a dockworker, say, move closer to his job when his wages don't allow him to buy a home near his job? And how does he find a job doing dockwork not near the ocean?
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And the alternative would be...? Life is full of crapy choice like that.
ETA: and then of course there is the whole issue of his spouse and where she works, and where the kids go to school, etc. Upshot is that here in the states we are often constrained to these long commutes. No planning will alleviate this.
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Exactly, people need to take all this into consideration when they get a job and a house.

Sure I make it sound easy when I say it, and perhaps it's not fair. However, if people don't think about consequences of their own actions and decisions, who the heck should?
 
roger said:
Were it so easy.

How exactly does a dockworker, say, move closer to his job when his wages don't allow him to buy a home near his job? And how does he find a job doing dockwork not near the ocean?
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Along those lines, I used to frame houses. Sometimes the subcontractor I worked for would get a job on the east side of town, sometimes on the west side of town. Some of the many places we worked are shown on this map:

commute4hr.jpg


Moving 'closer' to work wasn't a reasonable goal. I lived close to school, instead. At least it didn't jump around every few weeks.
 
hhmmmm, actually it seems to be a big yawn here.

I drive cars that get good gas mileage. But no one else is really complaining.

I've lived in Europe. I could take the tram, the bus and the subway if I wanted to go anywhere. I'm sure the fuel taxes helped pay for all that. (It was quite cheap, but they had to have a whole police force that just checked to make sure people were paying their fares. Outwitting them in Brussels is a city sport). I'm sure those police were getting paid something (they even have their own uniforms....).

Hey, I love any high speed train. And I love public transportation. But to do that outlay in the US would be overwhelming. totally. I don't think people get how BIG the US is. And how rural many people live. I know I know, there are rural places in Europe. Nope, not US rural. OK Yugoslavia, and even that isn't rural like Oaklahoma or Nebraska.

Honestly though, a little biodiesel and some smaller cars and everything would be fine. Heck, buy your hummer, you just aren't allowed to complain about gas prices. Drive a mini cooper and you are allowed to.

My neighbors just bought a big new Chevy Suburban thingy. Got a great price. Me, it would just be a planter. How will they even afford to drive it to town? (no bus or other service here thanks).
 
It should be noted that when I was in London and they were bombing the subway, I was informed that it was really terror against the poor and some tourists. REAL people took a car or car service to work. They did NOT ride the subway.

I rememeber looking around the bus and the trams in Brussels and noticing it was students, minorities, and me.

So public transportation helps the group most hurt by high gas prices. For those that are middle class and above in Brussels at least, the CAR is the only way to go. And they live in the burbs.

My friend worked in Milan for 2 years. He was informed he had to STOP riding the bus and drive the company car they gave him. It looked bad, his taking the bus.

In Brussels most people got a company car, and a gas allowance. Most executive types (and I'm talking lower executive). This is a way around the supposedlly high taxes in Belgium. Not taxed are you company car, you gas allowance, and a food allowance. People where Pool Boy worked received around $40 a day in food vouchers they used at the food store, or could go out and eat with. And people wonder why Brussels has so many restaurants. All that would be taxed here.

The middle class everywhere drives the car.
 
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