Free energy argument

[Tom Morris]

How would one respond to this argument.

1. Sceptic lists the history of the free energy debacle and how free energy idiots leech on to every kind of science that comes up (eg. electricity, magnetism, atomic energy, fusion etc.).
2. Sceptic notes that the machines have been universally derided by most reputable physicists and scientists in general.
3. Another person states that "But what about the oil companies, they often buy the free energy machines - they must work otherwise they wouldn't buy out the rights to them"

How could you respond to that?

 

[The Don]

Firstly I would ask for evidence that the oil companies did indeed by up these machines.

If they had I would assume initially it was for evaluation purposes.

If they had been evaluated and they did indeed work, I would ask why they hadn't been marketed on a "pay per joule" basis as a means of diversifying the oil business away from the tricky, expensive and risky business of exploring for and extracting oil.

 

[Anders]

How would one respond to this argument.

1. Sceptic lists the history of the free energy debacle and how free energy idiots leech on to every kind of science that comes up (eg. electricity, magnetism, atomic energy, fusion etc.).
2. Sceptic notes that the machines have been universally derided by most reputable physicists and scientists in general.
3. Another person states that "But what about the oil companies, they often buy the free energy machines - they must work otherwise they wouldn't buy out the rights to them"

How could you respond to that?

3. No they don't. This is just a theory: If an oil-company got thier hands on a "free-energy"-machine, they would give up the very expensive pumping of oil and go into the business of free-energy. A very lucrative market. Make energy out of nothing and sell it for more money. You would first of all destroy the energy market, and you would be very rich in a moments notice.

2. Not just reputable physicists and scientists, I'm a just a simple standard M.Sc in Electrical Engineering and I too know and I can also show why a certain "free-energy"-machine don't work.

1. Well, you have to ask the "free energy idiots".

 

[garys_2k]

It always comes down to the "great oil company conspiracy."

Ask HIM how come governments and independent researchers all over the world are in on it. Even an energy dependent country like Japan must by secretly supporting the status quo, never mind that they import every drop of oil they use and would dearly love to have free energy. Ditto for most of Europe.

I know, the next step is that the auto/transportation industry is "in on it, too." Yeah, as IF they like to produce conventional powertrains that are bound by CAFE, CO2 and other emissions rules.

But once that conspiracy theory has been accepted, prying common sense into them is very difficult. Good luck.

 

[BPSCG]

It always comes down to the "great oil company conspiracy."

Ask HIM how come governments and independent researchers all over the world are in on it.

Dammit, another conspiracy that every but me is in on!

 

[Pragmatist]

Dammit, another conspiracy that every but me is in on!

Yep, you guessed it. It's one giant conspiracy and EVERYBODY is in on it except you, because it's a conspiracy against you personally. Because....uh....well, just BECAUSE! So there!

Actually, has anyone ever tried to make a comprehensive list of woo woo conspiracies? Might be a great countering tool. Here's a few to be going on with:

1. The great conspiracy by power companies to cover up adverse EMF effects.
2. Big pharma conspiracy against alternative medicine.
3. Oil companies versus free energy.
4. Various governments covering up UFO's.
5. Various governments experimenting with chemtrails.

Any takers?

 

[pgwenthold]

It always comes down to the "great oil company conspiracy."

Ask HIM how come governments and independent researchers all over the world are in on it. Even an energy dependent country like Japan must by secretly supporting the status quo, never mind that they import every drop of oil they use and would dearly love to have free energy. Ditto for most of Europe.

I know, the next step is that the auto/transportation industry is "in on it, too." Yeah, as IF they like to produce conventional powertrains that are bound by CAFE, CO2 and other emissions rules.

But once that conspiracy theory has been accepted, prying common sense into them is very difficult. Good luck.

But this conspiracy just doesn't make sense! Why would all the oil companies collude to keep this off the market? If BP could get a free energy source, it would buy it up in a second and put the other oil companies (competitors!) out of business. It's a lot easier than having to buy them all out, which is the current alternative.

The idea that Shell and BP are working together to keep the other in business is lunacy.

 

[garys_2k]

Yep, you guessed it. It's one giant conspiracy and EVERYBODY is in on it except you, because it's a conspiracy against you personally. Because....uh....well, just BECAUSE! So there!

Actually, has anyone ever tried to make a comprehensive list of woo woo conspiracies? Might be a great countering tool. Here's a few to be going on with:

1. The great conspiracy by power companies to cover up adverse EMF effects.
2. Big pharma conspiracy against alternative medicine.
3. Oil companies versus free energy.
4. Various governments covering up UFO's.
5. Various governments experimenting with chemtrails.

Any takers?

Not to mention the "fake" moon landing, Kennedy assassination(s), Tungusta explosion, the UFO sub-conspiracies (abductions, crop circles, Roswell, Mars face), CIA mind control experiments, that whole Free Masons thing.

I'm sure the list goes on and on, and yeah, I must be on the "don't trust" list because I'm not in on any of them.

 

[Hellbound]

Yep, you guessed it. It's one giant conspiracy and EVERYBODY is in on it except you, because it's a conspiracy against you personally. Because....uh....well, just BECAUSE! So there!

Actually, has anyone ever tried to make a comprehensive list of woo woo conspiracies? Might be a great countering tool. Here's a few to be going on with:

1. The great conspiracy by power companies to cover up adverse EMF effects.
2. Big pharma conspiracy against alternative medicine.
3. Oil companies versus free energy.
4. Various governments covering up UFO's.
5. Various governments experimenting with chemtrails.

Any takers?

Well, I could make this easy. I could just go through my wallet. Being a card-carrying member of every known conspiracy, that would work. Of course, I need a ladder, rope, and miner's helmet to dig through my wallet. Too many cards. I think I might build an office building out of them.

 

[garys_2k]

But this conspiracy just doesn't make sense! Why would all the oil companies collude to keep this off the market? If BP could get a free energy source, it would buy it up in a second and put the other oil companies (competitors!) out of business. It's a lot easier than having to buy them all out, which is the current alternative.

The idea that Shell and BP are working together to keep the other in business is lunacy.

No kidding, but don't you see that they're all members of the Trilateral Commission and working for the REAL boss of the world, some Free Mason guy. It's all wheels within wheels for the true believers.

 

[pgwenthold]

No kidding, but don't you see that they're all members of the Trilateral Commission and working for the REAL boss of the world, some Free Mason guy. It's all wheels within wheels for the true believers.

Of course, that explains why BP bought out Amoco. Or was Amoco not playing for the right team?

How anyone could believe this nonsense just boggles me.

 

[BPSCG]

Of course, that explains why BP bought out Amoco. Or was Amoco not playing for the right team?

No, they weren't. There's a reason for that, but I'm not at liberty to say.

BTW, don't believe the rumors you may have heard that BPSCG stands for British Petroleum SinClair Gulf.

 

[garys_2k]

No, they weren't. There's a reason for that, but I'm not at liberty to say.

So YOU know??? Oh boy, we may have to shoot you.

 

[Tom Morris]

Just wait, I'll consult my Tarot cards and find out whether there is any oil company conspiracy...

 

[Donn]

The idea that Shell and BP are working together to keep the other in business is lunacy.

Not that I agree with the conspiracy, but, to be fair, I think that there could be a reason for oil companies to work together.

Let's say there are free energy machines (FEMs) and that Shell and BP (and others) buy them up and squash them. The reason could be that they know they cannot (yet) destroy their rivals because a) they all have FEMs in their vaults, so they stalemate there, and b) they sell oil and FEMs would mean a lot of technology changes to cars and so forth; not to mention oil-based products like plastic and ink and products like keyboards and monitors and modems and... and ... and ... and ....
So, it seems reasonable that they may take the path of least resistance, a kind of balance between desire for dominance in the market and the need to survive and so they cooperate on certain levels.
No?

 

[Rob Lister]

A friend of mine invented a free energy device, but it's illegal. It's nothing more than a simple strand of insulated wire running from his circuit breaker box to a hole he drilled from the interior of his house out to the metal pipe running up to his power meter. He installed it during a long power outage in case you're wondering about his health. Details of the installation can be obtained for a nominal fee.

 

[pgwenthold]

Not that I agree with the conspiracy, but, to be fair, I think that there could be a reason for oil companies to work together.

Let's say there are free energy machines (FEMs) and that Shell and BP (and others) buy them up and squash them. The reason could be that they know they cannot (yet) destroy their rivals because a) they all have FEMs in their vaults, so they stalemate there, and b) they sell oil and FEMs would mean a lot of technology changes to cars and so forth; not to mention oil-based products like plastic and ink and products like keyboards and monitors and modems and... and ... and ... and ....
So, it seems reasonable that they may take the path of least resistance, a kind of balance between desire for dominance in the market and the need to survive and so they cooperate on certain levels.
No?

The only way this makes sense is if the other companies have better FEMs in their vaults. OTOH, if that is the case, the ones with the better FEMs will go into business, getting back to square one.

Sure, there is still room for oil companies in the chemical business, but energy companies won't care about that.

The technology changes needed are ultimately small potatos. Oil companies will begin their own lines, and every manufacture will get in on the game.

 

[Donn]

Ok, what about the "status quo", the impetus of what already works, the momentum of the oil and petrol paradigm?
What if the oil co's have agreed to keep the situation as-is because they forsee things like economic chaos, massive job-losses, huge social upheaval.
Secondly, the chances of a monopoloy on a free-energy source or device are very slim. It's more likely that if Co A throws of the paradigm and announces the new system, then Co B will very quickly have the blueprints and a team of lawyers with machine-guns behind them.
Also, the chances are that the secret will slip onto the net and that you and I will run these machines in our basements!

Would you say that its possible that such new tech could kill all oil companies (in the energy business) very swiftly and hence this is a good motivation for their colluding?

 

[pgwenthold]

Would you say that its possible that such new tech could kill all oil companies (in the energy business) very swiftly and hence this is a good motivation for their colluding?

Yes, if it was someone else who brought in the tech.

However, the claim is that it is the oil companies themselves who have it but won't use it. Why would they do that? It could kill all the oil companies but one, but why should that oil company care if the others go out of business?

BP is already trying to squash the competition, but the only way it can do that now is to buy it up. Would be a lot cheaper to just wipe them off the map.

 

[Donn]

I don't know anything specific about companies like BP and what they are doing or no, my argument is that perhaps it's a little simplistic to just state that the oil companies would do anything to kill each other and have one monopoly.
I don't know if it's comparable to Microsoft, and even they have competition. If there were only one oil company then the world could be in lots more trouble than it is now.

I am arguing that the oil companies *don't* actually want to be alone, that they want to share the load for reasons stated in my last post. *If* that is the case then FEMs would be quietly hushed-up.

Erm... just thought of a problem in my argument: If there were a real FEM then the companies could still work together and promote the new FEM and avoid social and political upheaval (well, at least some of it. can you imagine the ◊◊◊◊-storm that will erupt in the Middle-East if oil is no longer prized?)

Ah, this devil's avocado is such a dry salad!