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Foreign Observers criticize US elections

The delegation condemned the disenfranchisement of an estimated 4.7 million ex-felons which it said fell short of international standards.
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Me confused. Are they saying we should disenfranchise more felons?

Okay, if you insist. Send over some foreign felons, and we'll disenfranchise them, too.
 
Tony said:
The US has become a banana republic.
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Huh?

Wikipedia: A Banana republic is a country which has a government imposed upon it by foreign power in a cynical, non-democratic way, and which serves as a form of colony providing some sort of raw natural resources (for example, bananas) in exchange for military support.

No matter how you cut it, unless you are going to present an Israel Conspiracy, your assertion fails.

But don't let that stop you.
 
Rob Lister said:
Huh?

Wikipedia: A Banana republic is a country which has a government imposed upon it by foreign power in a cynical, non-democratic way, and which serves as a form of colony providing some sort of raw natural resources (for example, bananas) in exchange for military support.

No matter how you cut it, unless you are going to present an Israel Conspiracy, your assertion fails.

But don't let that stop you.
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Of course I was speaking in the abstract. I would have thought you'd have the intelligence to understand, guess I was wrong. Or maybe you're just being pedantic.
 
Tony said:
Of course I was speaking in the abstract. I would have thought you'd have the intelligence to understand, guess I was wrong. Or maybe you're just being pedantic.
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Between you and Shanek, I don't know which one uses the word "pedantic" more. Regardless, it seems you are both rather "pedantic" at times with the use of "pedantic".

Nevertheless...

Since you were just speaking "in the abstract" then might I suggest you find an abstract that better reflects our current government. Hard as I try I can find no reasonable cause to compare our government with that of a banana republic. It could certainly be suggested that we create banana republics from time to time, when it suits our interests, but that's a different matter for debate. Start a thread and I'll read it.
 
Tony said:
Of course I was speaking in the abstract. I would have thought you'd have the intelligence to understand, guess I was wrong. Or maybe you're just being pedantic.
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It's one of his techniques, just like routinely insulting his opponents is another.

He cares nothing for evenhanded dialog, or for facts, but only for how much trouble and insult he can create, as far as I can tell.

I wonder, though, we place OUR observers in foreign countries pretty much all the time, so I wonder what the problem is with the inverse?
 
jj said:
I wonder, though, we place OUR observers in foreign countries pretty much all the time, so I wonder what the problem is with the inverse?
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Good heavens, can't you see that by having international observers at our elections it actually makes the US look like it's capable of error? That it's not special?

"That's nothing but an ugly, vicious truth!" --Jerri Blank
 
TragicMonkey said:
Good heavens, can't you see that by having international observers at our elections it actually makes the US look like it's capable of error? That it's not special?

"That's nothing but an ugly, vicious truth!" --Jerri Blank
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Think about it a different way. What if they said they did find error, regardless of the truth of the matter? What would that mean? What impact might it have? Consider the implications legally, politically, socially, ...internationally.

JJ would love, it seems, to bring the U.S. down a notch. More than a notch, most likely. I don't think it matters to him. He cannot seem to see past this election. Or likely, the last.
 
Rob Lister said:
Between you and Shanek, I don't know which one uses the word "pedantic" more. Regardless, it seems you are both rather "pedantic" at times with the use of "pedantic".

Nevertheless...

Since you were just speaking "in the abstract" then might I suggest you find an abstract that better reflects our current government. Hard as I try I can find no reasonable cause to compare our government with that of a banana republic. It could certainly be suggested that we create banana republics from time to time, when it suits our interests, but that's a different matter for debate. Start a thread and I'll read it.
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To be fair to Tony, I also thought that "banana republic" meant something else, namely a country (a republic, obviously) that, while being a representative democracy or something very similar on the paper, exhibited most or all of the following traits:

- rampant cronyism and/or nepotism
- widespread corruption
- rigged or manipulated elections
- occasional sabre-rattling and/or military adventures to distract from domestic problems
- observers from first-world countries frequently get the notion that this country is a parody of a real republic.
(plus probably some more I forgot)

This usually happens in countries that receive a significant income form exporting bananas, hence the name. I have no idea, though, if this is a correlation or just coincidence.
 
Rob Lister said:
Think about it a different way. What if they said they did find error, regardless of the truth of the matter? What would that mean? What impact might it have? Consider the implications legally, politically, socially, ...internationally.
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Oh, the rest of the world doesn't like us, anyway. And whatever they found, the only Americans who would listen would be the losing side's lawyers when they start contesting the results. The rest of the world will go on thinking we don't care about their opinions, which is mostly true.
 
Rob Lister said:
Between you and Shanek, I don't know which one uses the word "pedantic" more. Regardless, it seems you are both rather "pedantic" at times with the use of "pedantic".

Nevertheless...
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Dude, this is like the first time I've used it on this forum. This shows how much you pay attention and how likely you are to make up "facts".

Since you were just speaking "in the abstract" then might I suggest you find an abstract that better reflects our current government.
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(see Chaos' post)

My usage of "banana republic" was spot on.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Oh, the rest of the world doesn't like us, anyway. And whatever they found, the only Americans who would listen would be the losing side's lawyers when they start contesting the results. The rest of the world will go on thinking we don't care about their opinions, which is mostly true.
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Let me put it another way. It is nothing less than prostituting soverian independence. I know that many on our left would love to see this, JJ being but one of them, but it strikes me as something beyond unamerican and approching treasonous.
 
Rob Lister said:
Let me put it another way. It is nothing less than prostituting soverian independence. I know that many on our left would love to see this, JJ being but one of them, but it strikes me as something beyond unamerican and approching treasonous.
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What, letting some foreigners watch? That's all they do. They don't count the votes or anything. We watch plenty of theirs, why not let them watch ours? They're only observers. Nothing they say or do will affect the results at all.
 
Tony said:
Dude, this is like the first time I've used it on this forum. This shows how much you pay attention and how likely you are to make up "facts".
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What fact did I make up? I said I didn't know who used the word more. Clearly it seems the answer is Shanek.



Tony said:
(see Chaos' post)

My usage of "banana republic" was spot on.
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I disagree.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Nothing they say or do will affect the results at all.
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Then they have no purpose except their own entertainment. Is that why JJ wants them here? Is he planning on scalping tickets?
 
Rob Lister said:
but it strikes me as something beyond unamerican and approching treasonous.
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It's no more un-American than rigged elections, disenfranchisement, perversion of the constitution and infringements of freedom.
 
Tony said:
Of course I was speaking in the abstract. I would have thought you'd have the intelligence to understand, guess I was wrong. Or maybe you're just being pedantic.
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Actually pedantic doesn't quite cover it, dishonest might be closer. Did you notice that he didn't post a link to Wikipedia? It could be because he didn't want people to follow the link, and see this quote: "The term [Banana Republic] has come to be used to describe a generally unstable or "backwards" dictatorial regime or a country where fraudulent elections are regularly held." which seems to be the definition of the term you used (though still somewhat loosely). I suppose it's possible that he simply forgot to include the link, and he didn’t read the entire article. After all the article is all is all of seven lines long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic
 
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