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For Believers, Just How Important Is Immortality?

MattusMaximus

Intellectual Gladiator
MattusMaximus
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A hypothetical question for the believers here, one which I heard on an awesome podcast called A Christian and An Atheist...

Suppose that God (and by "God" I mean the monotheistic Abrahamic God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) exists, but He doesn't grant immortality to His followers. God is real, but there is no Heaven, no Hell, and no afterlife of any sort - believers are just as mortal as non-believers, and when you die, that's it.

If this were the case, would it affect whether or not you worship God? Would you consider changing religions, or becoming an atheist? Would it affect how you live your life? If so, how?

Thanks in advance :)
 
Jews don't believe in an afterlife, as I understand it. Yet they still worship. Illogic piled on illogic if you ask me.
 
I would probably ask for a focus group with the big guy and see what other typo errors there are in the Bible.
 
MattusMaximus said:
A hypothetical question for the believers here, one which I heard on an awesome podcast called A Christian and An Atheist...

Suppose that God (and by "God" I mean the monotheistic Abrahamic God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) exists, but He doesn't grant immortality to His followers. God is real, but there is no Heaven, no Hell, and no afterlife of any sort - believers are just as mortal as non-believers, and when you die, that's it.

If this were the case, would it affect whether or not you worship God? Would you consider changing religions, or becoming an atheist? Would it affect how you live your life? If so, how?

Thanks in advance :)
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The question is a bit confusing. The first paragraph supposes that the Abrahamic God exists, but one of the questions is if believers would become atheists, supposing the first paragraph is true. If you we suppose that any God does exist, that makes it sort of difficult to be an atheist.
 
I think it's just a semantic issue, easily remedied. The question is would you still worship this God. Forgetting the word atheist was used. *edit*

Otherwise, we'd just be pretending God doesn't exist out of spite,...
 
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Let me try:


Suppose that God (and by "God" I mean the monotheistic Abrahamic God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) is not said to grant immortality to His followers. There are no concepts of Heaven, or Hell, or of any afterlife of any sort - believers are just as mortal as non-believers, and when you die, that's it. No eternal bliss, no eternal punishment.

If this were the case, would it affect whether or not you worship God? Would it affect how you live your life? If so, how?
 
Beerina said:
Jews don't believe in an afterlife, as I understand it. Yet they still worship. Illogic piled on illogic if you ask me.
Click to expand...

Judging from the OT, the Jews had a lot to worry about what god would do to them in this life.:D
 
Beerina said:
Jews don't believe in an afterlife, as I understand it. Yet they still worship. Illogic piled on illogic if you ask me.
Click to expand...

That is actually a bit more complex, from what I understand. Many modern Jews do believe that there is some kind of afterlife, it's just that God never said what kind of afterlife. I understand at least some believe in reincarnation.

The idea of _some_ kind of afterlife is kinda late to Judaism, but has been there since BC times actually. That's what the split between Pharisees and Sadducees was about.

The original Judaism, though, yeah, had no afterlife, and the Sadducees stuck to that idea to the bitter end.

But, as MontagK505 said, they had bigger concerns about what God will do to them in this life. The OT God isn't all love, and isn't as much worshipped as a way to get a favour... except if by "favour" we mean "please don't kill me yet." The OT God is the school bully or the stereotypical Vito "The Kneecapper" Marcone thug, as Gods go. You give him your lunch money and humiliate yourself before him, not to have him be your friend, but so he doesn't break your legs.

The whole message of the OT is that basically there is no escaping God (see Jonah) and even if you were to not get personally smitten, he'll kill your children and friends instead (see the plague in Numbers.) And sometimes just on a stupid fratboy bet with Satan. In fact, he'll even kill your children and your servants on such a stupid bet. (See Job.)

I kid you not, apparently some Jews believe that the Holocaust was their own God deciding to kill a few millions of them for not appeasing him enough. Or because their grandfathers didn't appease him enough to not run amok like that.

I'd say it's not particularly illogical that, if you believe such a God exists, you keep him appeased. Think, basically, paying your protection money to someone called Vito "The Kneecapper" Marcone. If you can't beat him and can't escape him, it does make more sense to just pay his extortion racket than make yourself a martyr.
 
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Interesting question.

I believe the ultimate spiritual truth lies in non-dualism, and thus the Abrahamic assumption doesn't really apply to me (though there are elements of non-dualism therein).

If I was an Abrahamic I would find it strange that God would create billions of sentient beings just for them to be snuffed out due to whatever arbitrary circumstance - accidents etc..

There would also be a moral problem in that there would be no real redress - in the form of post-life judgment, retribution, suffering, learning - to people behaving as evilly as they liked (particularly if they knew they could escape human-applied justice).
 
plumjam said:
If I was an Abrahamic I would find it strange that God would create billions of sentient beings just for them to be snuffed out due to whatever arbitrary circumstance - accidents etc..
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Well, yes, but their God was busy snuffing out millions of those beings himself. Strange, I suppose, but he's "special" like that ;)

plumjam said:
There would also be a moral problem in that there would be no real redress - in the form of post-life judgment, retribution, suffering, learning - to people behaving as evilly as they liked (particularly if they knew they could escape human-applied justice).
Click to expand...

There was some expectation that God would dish out some rewards and punishments in this life -- and in fact that's exactly the theme of Job -- but either way, they still had more immediate problems with their kind of God. They had a religion not unlike living in North Korea under Kim Jong Il. If you think you can tell him "I'm not coming to the mandatory parrade in your honour because the guy who raped my sister was never caught", you might have a very painful surprise.
 
bump... I'm still waiting for someone who believes in the Abrahamic God to answer the OP...
 
MattusMaximus said:
A hypothetical question for the believers here, one which I heard on an awesome podcast called A Christian and An Atheist...

Suppose that God (and by "God" I mean the monotheistic Abrahamic God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) exists, but He doesn't grant immortality to His followers.
Click to expand...
MM, you just proposed that we have a car with no wheels. You contradicted yourself in attempting to use God and then redefine God as something else.

Also, I think the Judaic and Christian positions on immortality do not coincide (any of our Jewish friend please correct me if I've missed the boat on that) and thus the bolded part up there is another internal contradiction to your effort.

slingblade said:
Let me try:
Suppose that God (and by "God" I mean the monotheistic Abrahamic God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) is not said to grant immortality to His followers. There are no concepts of Heaven, or Hell, or of any afterlife of any sort - believers are just as mortal as non-believers, and when you die, that's it. No eternal bliss, no eternal punishment.

If this were the case, would it affect whether or not you worship God? Would it affect how you live your life? If so, how?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately we are still left with the "suppose we have a car without any wheels" set up.

Quite frankly, I've never given this any thought, and probably won't now that the question has been posed. I am content to find out how it all works when crossing the bar ... in the meantime, I still have a lot of work to do in my putting into practice the Two Greatest Commandments, so I'll focus my efforts and energy there.
 
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MattusMaximus said:
A hypothetical question for the believers here, one which I heard on an awesome podcast called A Christian and An Atheist...

Suppose that God (and by "God" I mean the monotheistic Abrahamic God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) exists, but He doesn't grant immortality to His followers. God is real, but there is no Heaven, no Hell, and no afterlife of any sort - believers are just as mortal as non-believers, and when you die, that's it.

If this were the case, would it affect whether or not you worship God? Would you consider changing religions, or becoming an atheist? Would it affect how you live your life? If so, how?

Thanks in advance :)
Click to expand...

It wouldn't seriously impact, nor alter my general religious beliefs. At least it wouldn't complicate or negate them.

Oh, and I am Roman Catholic.
 
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MattusMaximus said:
A hypothetical question for the believers here, one which I heard on an awesome podcast called A Christian and An Atheist...

Suppose that God (and by "God" I mean the monotheistic Abrahamic God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) exists, but He doesn't grant immortality to His followers. God is real, but there is no Heaven, no Hell, and no afterlife of any sort - believers are just as mortal as non-believers, and when you die, that's it.

If this were the case, would it affect whether or not you worship God? Would you consider changing religions, or becoming an atheist? Would it affect how you live your life? If so, how?

Thanks in advance :)
Click to expand...
heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away
 
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When I was in school they used to make us sing a daft song about how we would stand around god's throne in heaven endlessly singing his praises. I used to think that this god must be an egotistical bugger and how boring would that be? Immortality,no thanks.
 
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