Food coloring... everywhere?

[Z]

OK, I'm interested in seeing what responses are generated to this concept.

When I was very young, I was diagnosed as hyperactive, as MANY kids our age were (I'm 33 - damn near 34). At first, the prevaling drug of the time was employed (I don't remember, quit asking) and it had exactly the OPPOSITE effect it was supposed to have. So our family doctor prescribed caffeine and a regulated diet - no preservatives, no red food dye, and limits on sodas and sugary snacks. Amazingly, SOMETHING in that diet worked perfectly, and I went on to graduate in the top 10 of my class (number 9, to be precise), with whatever college options I could want, short of the Ivy League.

Fast forward to our children, and our own problems: My seven-year-old has been diagnosed with combination ADD - meaning, he shows symptoms and signs, but not always the 'common' ones, and needs some help. So after seeing teams of doctors, psychologists, child specialists, etc. the conclusion seems to be - remove food dyes. ALL artificial, petroleum-based food dyes (that would be the D&C and FD&C colors you see on those Doritos and Cheetos). We have observed remarkable improvement, as have the doctors; yet we regularly face nay-sayers who claim that there is no such thing as a 'sensitivity' to petroleum-based coloring.

Now, I've read studies both for and against the issue, and am aware of the FDA's current policy - AND who WROTE that policy.

Anyway, enough ground work - last night, Meiers had a big sale across the store, and one of the sale products was for Florida Oranges - buy one, get one free. Well, I rarely pass up a BOGO sale, so I grabbed a bag--- and there it was. Under the Florida Oranges logo (Yum! So much better than CA oranges!), in fine red print - "Color added."

Color added? To Oranges????

Well, I'm outraged. Oranges. Apples. Some other fruits, like cherries. Some veggies, too. Fish. Meat. And, of course, damned near every product put out by Green Giant that has any sauce has color added. Even rice, mushrooms, and peas has color added. I gotta ask - WHY??? Why dump petroleum-based food coloring into our food supply? Aside from being yet another ingredient that needs to be purchased, thereby raising the price of our food, isn't there sufficient reason to, at the very least, produce NON-dyed versions of foods for those with sensitivities?

Anyway, I'd like to hear what you guys think of all these petroleum-based dyes in our foods, and whether or not the FDA OUGHT to take some kind of action, or whether it's all just hooplah... AND - whether or not we NEED more color in our regular foods (obviously, fun foods like M&Ms would suffer without fake colors)? I mean, do you think you would miss the addition of FD&C Yellow #5 Lake to a batch of your broccoli & cheese side dish?

 

[Boo]

I have heard of allergies to Red40 that causes hyperactivity in children and can cause true allergic reactions (hives, etc). It's what makes children's Benadryl pink which is what is commonly given to kids for ....allergic reactions. Which is why we now have liquid Benadryl clear.

As for removing coloring from everyday food items, most people won't buy food without it, it's just too unappealing.

The presence of these dyes as suspected allergens is part of the Organic push for better labeling and the use of the word 'natural' or 'pure' on food items.


Boo

 

[Goshawk]

whether or not the FDA OUGHT to take some kind of action

The FDA has already taken all the action it feels it needs to take. They regulate the manufacture, sale, and utilization of the nine certified food colors in American foodstuffs. And that's it.

Calling on the FDA to remove dyes from food because some people are sensitive to them is like calling on the baseball commissioner to remove rosin bags from major league play because some people are allergic to rosin.

 

[Z]

... most people won't buy food without it, it's just too unappealing.

Ah... so most people never bought food prior to the introduction of food dyes? I find this statement very odd... what? Without food dye, people won't get hungry?

 

[Z]

The FDA has already taken all the action it feels it needs to take. They regulate the manufacture, sale, and utilization of the nine certified food colors in American foodstuffs. And that's it.

Apparently not... it would seem the FDA has taken all the actions it CAN take, due to tremendous pressure from various food industries and government officials to NOT take action.

 

[Amapola]

I think people USED to know what food really looked like, and they went ahead and bought it. The average consumer in America today does not raise their own meat or vegetables, and so they don't have much experience with what food looks like when it has not been dyed. Since I do, I look askance at the meat in grocery stores. I have butchered my own meat plenty of times and I know what meat looks like, and that is not it! But most people don't have the same experience and to them, it looks tasty. Weirds me out but that is the way it is.

I would say, just try to buy undyed foods. You may be able to find a farmer's market, a farmer or some other place where you can buy undyed foods, but I will warn you that you will then have to cook them. A lot of people prefer the convenience of prepared foods.

 

[bug_girl]

Oh, you don't even want to get me started on how the use of pesticides is promoted by Joe/Jane Average's insistance on perfect fruit and veg. Sigh.
Amapola is right--people are very disconnected from their food, and food sources. Some people put tomatoes in the refrigerator, for cripes sake!

I would like to put in a plug for one red food coloring/dye that is all-natural: Carmine or Cochineal. It's made from squashed pregnant scale insects, and you can't get much more natural than that.

I always loved pointing that out as an ingredient in lipstick to women, and watching them freak out.
BTW, many indigenous people harvest these insects as a way of making some cash. A nice exhibit on the insects and the dye can be found here

Snopes, alas, has incorrect info--the insects are NOT beetles.
http://www.snopes.com/food/ingredient/bugjuice.htm

 

[geni]

Anyway, I'd like to hear what you guys think of all these petroleum-based dyes in our foods,

Slightly missleading. A lot of the modern dyes are just sythetic versions of stuff that already exists in nature. No dye could be described as "petroleum-based" petroleum oil is a mixture of mostly alkanes. Dyes tend to be a single compound containing a fair number of double bonds.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Are they putting dyes on oranges, or in oranges?

Food does involves more senses than just taste. We don't need food coloring, then there are a lot of things that we don't need. Pain killers, for instance.

Amapola is right--people are very disconnected from their food, and food sources. Some people put tomatoes in the refrigerator, for cripes sake!

And if they grew their own, they wouldn't?

 

[Z]

I think people USED to know what food really looked like, and they went ahead and bought it. The average consumer in America today does not raise their own meat or vegetables, and so they don't have much experience with what food looks like when it has not been dyed. Since I do, I look askance at the meat in grocery stores. I have butchered my own meat plenty of times and I know what meat looks like, and that is not it! But most people don't have the same experience and to them, it looks tasty. Weirds me out but that is the way it is.

Yep - in other words, people have been force-fed the idea of plastic, pre-wrapped food for so long that sickly, fake-looking food is now desirable. Gotcha.

I would say, just try to buy undyed foods. You may be able to find a farmer's market, a farmer or some other place where you can buy undyed foods, but I will warn you that you will then have to cook them. A lot of people prefer the convenience of prepared foods.

I do a HELL of a lot of my own cooking. It's almost a requirement, with one member of the household being allergic to beef, pork, poultry, and game, some seafood, dairy, and certain types of wheat, and another having a sensitivity to food dyes. You can find a lot of undyed foods - thank the Gods - on the Generics aisle, too. I'm not surprised about that - these are the same products in many ways, without the bells and whistles that are designed to attract the average, brain-dead American. I mean, I've seen for myself how ignorant people can be, buying something basic like, say, table salt. "Oh, well Morton's just HAS to be better salt..."

The big problem I'm having right now, is that under Der Bush, the FDA has been pressured to lighten up on a lot of the restrictions that food companies were under, where labelling products and changing ingredients are concerned. Used to be, we could buy meat-free corn dogs (the kids LOVED them) and sausages; but suddenly, without warning, the companies making these products decided that corn dogs needed red and yellow food dyes added. So there are absolutely NO corn dogs the kids can have now, unless I'm going to the trouble to make them myself... and since veggie sausages are going the way of the dodo (except for dyed versions), that's getting harder to do. And a lot of products are suddenly adding things like chicken broth or red food dye without any notice on the label whatsoever, so our choices of available foods is quickly being shortened.

Plus, with food dye being smeared on and/or injected into the vegetables and fruits and fish we buy, often without our knowing about it... **shudder**

 

[Z]

Oh, you don't even want to get me started on how the use of pesticides is promoted by Joe/Jane Average's insistance on perfect fruit and veg. Sigh.
Amapola is right--people are very disconnected from their food, and food sources. Some people put tomatoes in the refrigerator, for cripes sake!

I would like to put in a plug for one red food coloring/dye that is all-natural: Carmine or Cochineal. It's made from squashed pregnant scale insects, and you can't get much more natural than that.

I always loved pointing that out as an ingredient in lipstick to women, and watching them freak out.
BTW, many indigenous people harvest these insects as a way of making some cash. A nice exhibit on the insects and the dye can be found here

Snopes, alas, has incorrect info--the insects are NOT beetles.
http://www.snopes.com/food/ingredient/bugjuice.htm

Yep - I'm rather fond of a particular brand of cheese spread that uses carmine coloring. After careful testing, we found that carmine, annato, etc. doesn't affect our sensitive kid at all. The yellows seem to make him bonkers, the reds make him aggressive and hateful, and the blues tend to give him mild migraines, but the vegetable and insect-based colors seem to have no affect on him at all.

After learning just how much insect protein we eat daily in our regular foods anyway, who cares about a little crushed insect color?

 

[Z]

Slightly missleading. A lot of the modern dyes are just sythetic versions of stuff that already exists in nature. No dye could be described as "petroleum-based" petroleum oil is a mixture of mostly alkanes. Dyes tend to be a single compound containing a fair number of double bonds.

We stand corrected.

Oh, let us not forget the whole aluminum 'Lake' series, which, btw, is not soluble...

 

[Z]

Are they putting dyes on oranges, or in oranges?

That was a big question for my roommate, too... until I reminded her that orange rinds are mildly porous. I don't know of any specific research into just how well citrus peels protect the meats inside from chemical intrusion, but I know that there was some concern growing up (I spent a couple of years living in an orange grove) about some pesticides infesting the meat of the oranges that were sprayed.

I haven't been able to find out yet if they inject the oranges or just spray them.

Food does involves more senses than just taste. We don't need food coloring, then there are a lot of things that we don't need. Pain killers, for instance.

Relating pain killers to cosmetic food coloring is really a bad analogy, don't you think? Pain killers relieve pain (duh)... so what, exactly, does adding MORE orange color to oranges do? Aside from cause young consumers to think that all food must look like it's carved of plastic?

I think it's especially misleading to color produce, since one of the things a shopper looks for (if they know their produce) is the natural color. Color should be an indication of ripeness, a good crop, etc. It's like painting over the rust spots on a car to conceal flaws and defects, IMHO. Same with meat, fish, etc. If I'm buying 'fresh' foods, I expect them to be their natural colors, so I can tell how fresh and healthy those foods actually are!

And if they grew their own, they wouldn't?

If they knew much about the foods they ate, they probably wouldn't.

Tomatos taste best when never touched by the cold. Like oranges and other citrus, tomatos are so pulpy that cold air can badly affect their internal texture and, therefore, flavor. Plus, a tomato continues to ripen and perfect when left out, of course.

 

[Darat]

Are they putting dyes on oranges, or in oranges?

Food does involves more senses than just taste. We don't need food coloring, then there are a lot of things that we don't need. Pain killers, for instance.

And if they grew their own, they wouldn't?

I think a lot of citrus fruits used to be dyed to alter the skin colour, I don;t know how common it still is. Part of this reason is that people apparently will buy more oranges if they are very orange in colour (orange skins can vary from quite pale yellows, all the way through to quite dark browns).

I suspect that what we see in many stores nowadays are only the varieties that are naturally very orange or have been bred to be very orange. Which is a shame since it means we actually get less choice and it means that the concentration is on breeding for colour rather then taste.

(ETA: Disagree about the pain killer comment.)

 

[Jyera]

This is the first time I hear people putting dye into oranges.

If I buy oranges, it would have to be an orange.
I find it a turn-off and will not buy it if I know it has dye.

Instead of buying a "tampered" orange, I might as well choose a "bottled/tetrapak" orange juice or juice-drink, which are usually cheaper.
Even for bottle orange juice, I'll choose those without coloring if I had the choice.

The color of orange does attract. But if it is not sweet, I'll not buy it again.
I think there are also other "feature".
- Eg. Navel-orange are considered sweeter.
- choose by considering country and region of origin.
- Choose according to brand.
- Choose according to weight, by picking the heavier ones, which usually means juicy.

So it is has nice color but is juiceless, not sweet, and not a brand I have tried before I will not consider it.

 

[Jyera]

From the viewpoint of food allergy,

It is unfortunate for ZD and his child to need to avoid certain food additive/color. I have always wondered why people are allergic to some substance and frustrated by medical science's seemingly lack of ability to cure the allergy.

 

[Jyera]

By the way how to identify an orange that has been dyed ?

 

[Wudang]

Most citrus fruit in the UK is sold with a wax coating. If the same is true in the US I would suspect the colouring is in the wax. I always try to buy unwaxed lemons and limes as I use the peel in various ways eg lemon peel in my meatballs. Oddly waxed lemons are never sold as such. Their existence is highlighted by the sale of unwaxed lemons labelled as such.

 

[Darat]

Wudung - I don't think it is in the wax - that would be noticeable since you can wash the wax off.

By the way don't you find it slightly amusing that they charge more for the unprocessed unwaxed lemons?

 

[Z]

They charge more for a LOT of things that have less ingredients... after all, they can label these things 'All natural' or 'Organic' and get away with charging more.

As for individual fruit, I can't figure out how to tell if it's dyed or not; these oranges were in a big bag, and the bag itself had the 'Color Added' label.

I was thinking last night about how stupid the statement, "people won't buy food without artificial coloring" really is. I mean, if the FDA were to ban all food dye tomorrow, does anyone here really think this would cause Americans to stop buying food? What, would we turn into a pure agricultural society overnight? Or - ha ha - all convert to Breathairianism?

Food is food, folks - and if you had no choice of dyed vs. undyed, you'd buy the undyed food.

Now, what I could conceive of, is a 'black market' springing up of dyed foods smuggled into the country, but since a LOT of other countries are also working on banning food dyes... well, I don't suspect it'd be a Prohibition-level problem, that's for sure.