Even more North Carolina election-rigging

shanek

Penultimate Amazing
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Yes, the great state of North Carolina, the state which flat out ignored Constitutionally valid votes for Ralph Nader in 2000, drew "safe" districts which, had it not been for the Libertarian Party, would have resulted in half of the General Assembly seats being uncontested, and has the third toughest ballot access requirements in the country, now wants to make it even harder for real competitors to get on the ballot.

Currently, if a minor party doesn't get at least 10% of the vote for President or Governor, they're no longer considered a valid party. At that point, they have to spend over $100,000 petitioning to get back on the ballot. So in the next election cycle, they're considered a "new party" and must nominate candidates in convention (at their own cost, no cost to the taxpayers) and are prohibited from running a primary. This means that the candidates do not pay filing fees. In the next election cycle, in a year divisible by 4, they have to hold a primary and pay filing fees to cover the costs of the primary just like the Democrats and Republicans—but if they don't get 10% of the vote for President or Governor, they're no longer a party and have to start all over again.

Now, in addition to all of this, the NC General Assembly wants to force new party candidates to pay a "new party filing fee," even though they're still not allowed to have the primary they'll be forced to pay for. Otherwise, they would have to petition for a second time to actually get on the ballot.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/html2003/bills/CurrentVersion/house/hbil0043.full.html

The main proponent and author of this bill is Rep. John Rayfield, whose only opposition in 2002 was Libertarian John Covington (who got 16% of the vote). Rayfield says that it's simply an issue of fairness; that third parties should be subject to the same rules as the major parties.

You know what? I agree with him 100%. We should. And I would love it if all I had to do to get on the ballot was take a quick trip up to my county BoE and pay a filing fee. That's all the Democrats and Republicans have ever had to do. Don't you think we'd like to spend that nine months focusing on our campaigns instead of collecting signatures? Don't you think the party would love to have that $100,000 to spend on advertising or supporting its candidates? Don't you think we'd love to be treated exactly the same as the Democrats and Republicans, who in the entire history of North Carolina have never, ever, ever had to file a petition to get on the ballot?

But this has zilch to do with fairness. What's the point in getting signatures filed by June 1st when the deadline for filing is Feb. 27th? The LP wouldn't be able to actually field any candidates under this new rule because that deadline would also apply to them, even though the LP wouldn't be officially recognized at the time of the deadline, and so Libertarian candidates couldn't file if they wanted to. It would effectively pull back the petitioning deadline to Feb. 27th, and I doubt even the Democrats and Republicans could pull that off if they tried.

And let's not forget the NC Constitution (even though our representatives have), which says, in Article VI Secion 6:

Eligibility to elective office. Every qualified voter in North Carolina who is 21 years of age, except as in this Constitution disqualified, shall be eligible for election by the people to office.

But North Carolina, the state where you actually have to qualify as a write-in candidate (and your votes aren't counted if you don't, just like Nader's), it's clear they don't care about that.

Maybe it is unrealistic to consider the Libertarians, Greens, and any other party just like the Democrats and Republicans. But at the very least, we should go back to the ballot access requirements in place before 1983, where only 5,000 valid signatures were required for a new party to get on the ballot, and only 1% or 5,000 votes for President or Governor, whichever is lesser, was required to maintain ballot access. Dump the requirements for a write-in candidate, including the "sore loser" provision and allow the loser of a primary to have his write-in votes counted at the general election. And if you're going to make new parties pay the primary election filing fee, allow them to actually run a fscking primary.

Actually, I'd be in favor of allowing all parties—even the Democrats and Republicans—to, if they so choose, nominate their candidates in convention instead of a primary at their own expense (and none to the taxpayer), and in such a case their filing fees would be waived.

But I guess that's too fair and makes too much sense for some politicians to actually consider.
 
Rigged elections would explain a lot, like how they elected an ambulance chaser to the Senate.
 
corplinx said:
Rigged elections would explain a lot, like how they elected an ambulance chaser to the Senate.

If you're referring to John Edwards, he was elected in part because of the League of Women Voters and a couple other women's groups, who bemoaned the lack of a woman candidate but said that he was the best of the male candidates for the job.

Except, of course, that there was a woman candidate—Libertarian Barbara Howe.

(Interesting postscript: they also failed to endorse Elizabeth Dole over Erskine Bowles. Maybe the LWV is more political than ideological? Naaah, couldn't be.....)
 
shanek said:


If you're referring to John Edwards, he was elected in part because of the League of Women Voters and a couple other women's groups, who bemoaned the lack of a woman candidate but said that he was the best of the male candidates for the job.

Except, of course, that there was a woman candidate—Libertarian Barbara Howe.

(Interesting postscript: they also failed to endorse Elizabeth Dole over Erskine Bowles. Maybe the LWV is more political than ideological? Naaah, couldn't be.....)

Some friends in North Carolina indicated to me that they knew women who once again shamed the name of women's suffrage by voting for Edwards because he was young and good looking.
 
a_unique_person said:
This would be much more of a threat to the democracy of the US than Saddam ever could be.

Brainless votes? Hell, Michael Kinsley has been beefing about that for years, as well as a number of other pundits. Some people have no business voting.

The only way to overcome that is for more people to take seriously their responsibility to vote. But when you have people who claim they're "too busy," don't hold your breath on that happening any time soon.
 
Roadtoad said:


Brainless votes? Hell, Michael Kinsley has been beefing about that for years, as well as a number of other pundits. Some people have no business voting.

The only way to overcome that is for more people to take seriously their responsibility to vote. But when you have people who claim they're "too busy," don't hold your breath on that happening any time soon.

No, not the brainless votes. Sorry, I didn't make my point clear. The rorting of the system to prevent candidates from standing by putting in place ridiculous procedural rules. Reminds me of the USSR and it's supposed democratic structure that in fact was tightly controlled behind the scenes.

I actually believe in compulsory voting. And even if a few women vote for a guy because they think he is good looking, a lot of people voted for Dubya because he is a xian.
 
a_unique_person said:


I actually believe in compulsory voting.
So if you have a choice between the "Free Paedophiles" party...the "kill little kittens" party which would you give your support to? Sorry about the stupid example but Politicians love to claim a "mandade from the peole" claiming people support thier views....In a compulsory voting system this is hogwash.... No Politician has a mandate from anyone when people are forced to support a politician.
 
The Fool said:

So if you have a choice between the "Free Paedophiles" party...the "kill little kittens" party which would you give your support to? Sorry about the stupid example but Politicians love to claim a "mandade from the peole" claiming people support thier views....In a compulsory voting system this is hogwash.... No Politician has a mandate from anyone when people are forced to support a politician.

fortunately the choices are usually slighter better than the example you have given. What we tend to end up with is the least worst, rather than the best. The least worst is at least better than the worst.

Now, do we need a better class of candidate? Yes. Should we pay politicians more? Yes.
 
The Fool said:

So if you have a choice between the "Free Paedophiles" party...the "kill little kittens" party which would you give your support to? Sorry about the stupid example but Politicians love to claim a "mandade from the peole" claiming people support thier views....In a compulsory voting system this is hogwash.... No Politician has a mandate from anyone when people are forced to support a politician.

Does the "Free Paedophiles" party advocate that one should not have to pay a fee to molest children? That one should be allowed to do it for free? There's an idea: let's eradicate pedophilia by massively taxing it.

"mandade from the peole" -- ??? Do you mean "man date from the peehole"? Sirrah, I will never let a man date my peehole!

hogwash -- What brand do you use to wash your hog?
Sincerely,
Shemp + 3 shots tequila
 
It has long been a saying in North Carolina that nobody's money, property or liberty is safe while the legislature is in session.

(North Carolina's electoral vote also went to a lying, alcoholic, drug-using, AWOL for president.)
 
The Fool said:

So if you have a choice between the "Free Paedophiles" party...the "kill little kittens" party which would you give your support to? Sorry about the stupid example but Politicians love to claim a "mandade from the peole" claiming people support thier views....In a compulsory voting system this is hogwash.... No Politician has a mandate from anyone when people are forced to support a politician.

There is always the time honoured 'none of the above'. A report on the recent Iraqi election recently said that Saddam only got 99,9% of the votes last time, and 100% this time. I guess he shot the 'none of the above' crowd, but I don't think that kind of policy is a given for a compulsory voting system.
 
To get this back on topic...

AUP put it correctly and succinctly. California has tried similar gambits in the past in Sacramento County. Third parties are simply not wanted, because they complicate matters between the two main parties. Suddenly, the Republicans and the Democrats must (:eek: ) STAND FOR SOMETHING!

Smalso, that statement is dead on target for ANY state in the Union. But then, calling the California Legislature a "Rogue's Gallery" has always something of an understatement. Friends have told me I need to give the politicoes an even break; my idea that way would be to give them to the count of five before I open fire... (Sorry, AUP. It was gratuitous. But just reading the paper these days.... :mad: )
 
In a similar irony, these same parties decry monopolies in business, but so completely ignore their own monopolistic control of the political system.

Makes sense. At least we are being kept safe from real enemies, like IBM and Microsoft and bongs and drug-using cancer/AIDS patients :rolleyes:
 
Plutarck said:
In a similar irony, these same parties decry monopolies in business, but so completely ignore their own monopolistic control of the political system.

They have no problem with a monopoly...as long as it's their monopoly.
 
Update: Thanks to our lobbying efforts, sponsors are dropping off like flies. The best response we got came from Re. John Blum of Guilford County:

Don't worry, I'm not supporting this bill. The sponsor asked me to but I declined and told him that the Libertarians in my area had always been good to me and that I had similar views on alot of matters. Libetarians will get on the ballot so I don't think Republicans should be throwing up more obstacles. I am reeling so far this session due to the treachery of a group of our Republicans undercutting us and selling us out on this so-called "co-Speakership." I have never been done so dirty in any endeavor by people supposedly on my own team and the brazeness at which they got some power at the expense of principle has left me dazed. Now many other Republicans out of fear or other motives have joined in with this group and I am once again on the outs even though we won the elections. Wood was given a co-chairmanship so he had to have sold out in some capacity.

(By the way, the "co-speakership" he's referring to is the current efforts to have two speakers, one Democrat and one Republican, in the equally-divided NC House, a flagrant violation of the NC Constitution which only specifies one Speaker for the House.)
 
shanek said:
(By the way, the "co-speakership" he's referring to is the current efforts to have two speakers, one Democrat and one Republican, in the equally-divided NC House, a flagrant violation of the NC Constitution which only specifies one Speaker for the House.)

Wow, they really don't care the least about the constitution, do they?
 
Plutarck said:
Wow, they really don't care the least about the constitution, do they?

Nope. BTW, in case anyone wants verification:

House co-speakers Jim Black and Richard Morgan on Tuesday named eight people - four Democrats and four Republicans - to co-chair the powerful House Appropriations Committee.

The appointments were part of a full slate of announced committee assignments. The committees were formed almost a month after the General Assembly began its 2003 legislative session but were the first ever under the historic co-speaker arrangement.

http://newsobserver.com/nc24hour/ncnews/story/2248134p-2119074c.html

Sec. 15. Officers of the House of Representatives. The House of Representatives shall elect its Speaker and other officers.

NC Constitution, Article II, Section 15. Note the singular use of "Speaker."
 

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