European scientists and evolution

[Number Six]

I have some Religioner telling me that evolution isn't as accepted amongst European scientists as amongst US scientists. I strongly suspect that that is wrong (or that if it's right it's because 99.99% of US scientists accept it while 99.98% of European scientists accept it) but I can't prove it. It's my understanding that Europeans look at the evolution/creationism debate in the US and shake their heads at the silliness of it since resisitance against evolution in Europe is less than in the US but again I don't have sources for that. Can anyone help me?

 

[plindboe]

That argument is bullocks. I haven't got any evidence, but I certainly don't think that European scientists are different to American scientists in that respect. Like any other part of the world, we have plenty of dimwits here in Europe as well, but Creationism is basically a US thing, and you're right that we do shake our head in disbelief of what's going on over there. Remember that it's not up to you to prove anything, since he's the one making the claim. Ask for evidence, and if he can't give it, then his argument is unsupported and should be withdrawn.

 

[Hamish]

I can't provide hard facts but, speaking as a European scientist who has met an awful lot of other European scientists, I can only say that I've never met one who favours religious "creation science" over evolution.

It has always been my impression that creation science is a particularly American phenomenon. You never ever hear anything about people complaining about evolution being taught in schools in the UK. I can't speak for the rest of Europe of course.

Edited to say: Looks like I was beaten to it.

 

[geni]

It has always been my impression that creation science is a particularly American phenomenon. You never ever hear anything about people complaining about evolution being taught in schools in the UK. I can't speak for the rest of Europe of course.

I know of two schools in the UK that teach creationism.

 

[Peter Jenkins]

Like Hamish said.....................

And to Geni......

I know of two schools in the UK that teach creationism.

I'd like to know where those schools were because I'd like to
a) make sure no one I know ever sends their kids there
B) I'd like to ask the local education authority "WTF?????"

Peter

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Wasn't it European scientists (darwin) that started to present on evolution in the first place?

(Why does everyone point to America as the place of closeminded "western medicine" and "evolution" acceptors, blindly following science?)

There is a majority of folks that still think creation is the only explanation for the universe in America, not a minority.

I'm just hoping the majority still stick with "western scientific medicine" rather than the faith based teachings of medicine.


I don't know for sure either, but it doesn't make sense that the origins of these findings would have more scientists believing in creation than american scientists.

 

[geni]

I'd like to know where those schools were because I'd like to

The King's Academy in Middlesbrough and Gateshead's Emmanuel College

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/3088444.stm

a) make sure no one I know ever sends their kids there
B) I'd like to ask the local education authority "WTF?????"

You and most of the countries leading scientists the archbishop of cantibery and the top RC cardinal in the UK.
[/B]

 

[geni]

Wasn't it European scientists (darwin) that started to present on evolution in the first place?

Well there are a few ather caiments but basicly yes

I don't know for sure either, but it doesn't make sense that the origins of these findings would have more scientists believing in creation than american scientists.

It's not just the scientists but the man in the street and the relgious leaders as well.

 

[Hand Bent Spoon]

I haven't got any evidence,... Ask for evidence, and if he can't give it, then his argument is unsupported and should be withdrawn.

Happily awaiting your withdrawl. (Even though I know you're right LOL!)

 

[plindboe]

Happily awaiting your withdrawl. (Even though I know you're right LOL!)

Hehe, well, I just stated what I thunk, so didn't make a claim that required evidence.

 

[Captain_Snort]

Isn't one ofthose in tony blairs constituency, and IIRC when he was asked about it, he was in favour (he is a god botherer)

Myself, I think any school thay teaches creationism is doing a diservice to any child who wants to study science. Yes, evolution may only be a theory, but so is relativity, hell, nothing is 100%, it may be repeatable and 99.9999% sure, but nothing is 100%

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Yes, evolution may only be a theory, but so is relativity, hell, nothing is 100%, it may be repeatable and 99.9999% sure, but nothing is 100%

Well, some aspects of evolution are facts. Some parts some people are still just calling a theory.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

Evolution happens, no doubt about it. Some creationists will even agree with microevolution. They just dispute macroevolution.

 

[Rolfe]

I wish it was possible to discuss evolution in a neutral, enquiring atmosphere. The broad sweep of the theory is so obviously sensible that now we just wonder what took anyone so long. But there are difficulties in the details. I don't by any means think it's impossible to work these out. However, it seems as if the slightest questioning of the sacred "E" theory is heresy. The questioner is attacked with as much vehemence as a believer questioning holy writ.

Evolutionary science isn't a religion, and I think it would progress faster if people stopped defending it as if it was.

Rolfe.

 

[espritch]

(Why does everyone point to America as the place of closeminded "western medicine" and "evolution" acceptors, blindly following science?)

Who is this "everyone" exactly?

There is a majority of folks that still think creation is the only explanation for the universe in America, not a minority.

I don't think it's a majority. If it were, efforts to put Creationism in our text books wouldn't keep getting struck down. It is a large enough minority however, that the issue continues to be fought and has become a constant torn in the side of science education in this country.

I suspect the reason people see the US as "blindly following science" is that we accomplished so much with respect to science and technology in the 20'th century. So now we have woo woo conspiracy theorists trying to disprove our greatest scientific accomplishment - the Apollo missions - and religious woo woos trying to undermine basic science education. And these people probably think they are patriots. It's stupidly sad.

 

[Agammamon]

Of course even if 100% of "European Scientists" rejected evolution doesn't mean that they are right.

 

[Soapy Sam]

Rolfe said- "...there are difficulties in the details. I don't by any means think it's impossible to work these out. However, it seems as if the slightest questioning of the sacred "E" theory is heresy. The questioner is attacked with as much vehemence as a believer questioning holy writ."

Them's fightin' words round these parts, pardner. I suspect what you are referring to is Darwinism (Neo or not), rather than evolution itself. (Could a vet possibly doubt the fact of evolution?)

Which particular details interest you?