EU Summit: 'Timmermanns is a dangerous fanatic'

[Vixen]

So says Nigel Farage:

Theresa May must not back @TimmermansEU as the next European Commission president, he is a dangerous fanatic.

Theresa May it is reported stayed up until 3:00am yesterday to cast the deciding vote in the EU Parliament vote for its next leader.

She has said she will vote for whoever has the majority at that stage. Alas, after 20 hours of wrangling it had to be postponed until Tuesday.

Timmermanns, a Dutchman, represents the Centre-Left. Merkel wants Weber as representing the Centre-Right EPP. The right wing blocs of Hungary, Romania and Italy, etc., are totally opposed to the favourite, Timmermanns.

Will the EU Summit compromise by selecting someone like the Danish Vestager instead. The right wingers will probably like that despite her being a left winger because of her strong anti-immigrant stance.

Who do you think will win it or should win it, and why?

 

[ceptimus]

Process highlights the EU's enduring ability to never respect deadlines. The people involved must really love making important decisions when severely sleep-deprived.

 

[The Don]

Process highlights the EU's enduring ability to never respect deadlines. The people involved must really love making important decisions when severely sleep-deprived.

Oh well played !

Let me know when they've spent 3 years getting precisely nowhere and I'll start to compare them unfavourably to the UK.

On a serious note, I guess that's what happens when you elect a group of MEP whose openly stated objective is to deliberately frustrate and block the workings of the EU. The remaining countries likely cannot wait to see the back of the UK.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The remaining countries likely cannot wait to see the back of the UK.

The EU wants the "real" UK back.
You know, the one that understands the difference between the "enlightened self-interest" the country vs. the "dim self-interest" of some politicians.

 

[ceptimus]

Oh well played !

Let me know when they've spent 3 years getting precisely nowhere and I'll start to compare them unfavourably to the UK.

The EU have been just as responsible for the Brexit delay as our own crappy UK politicians: it takes two sides to negotiate. The EU could have also unilaterally ended the process in March or April by simply not offering extensions.

You know yourself that the EU always indulges in all-night, past-the-deadline, negotiations when attempting to conclude anything. I'm confident they will continue to do this, with or without UK involvement.

 

[The Don]

The EU wants the "real" UK back.
You know, the one that understands the difference between the "enlightened self-interest" the country vs. the "dim self-interest" of some politicians.

Looking at the UK's interactions with the EU over the last 40 years or so, I'm not sure that the "real" UK was ever engaged with the EU.

During the successive Conservative governments from 1979 to 1997, the UK gave the impression that it had one foot out of the door, asking for all kinds of special considerations, rebates and opt-outs. The non-membership of the Euro and Schengen is IMO a clear indication that the UK was lukewarm about EU membership.

Any expectation that the Labour governments of the period 1997 to 2010 would usher in a period of closer integration and cooperation was, I think, scotched early on. Perhaps the relationship wasn't as antagonistic and fractious as before but then again Blair's crush on Dubya and hard on for the Iraq war IMO made it very clear who he thought the UK's strategic partners were.

 

[The Don]

The EU have been just as responsible for the Brexit delay as our own crappy UK politicians: it takes two sides to negotiate. The EU could have also unilaterally ended the process in March or April by simply not offering extensions.

You know yourself that the EU always indulges in all-night, past-the-deadline, negotiations when attempting to conclude anything. I'm confident they will continue to do this, with or without UK involvement.

It's difficult to negotiate when one side (the UK) doesn't appear to have a clue what it wants aside from "everything for free" which isn't really a negotiating position.

Yes we know that the Brexiteers will hope to blame the EU for all the negative consequences of our self-inflicted pain and with enough support from the right wing press they might even succeed.

 

[Vixen]

Deleted.

 

[Vixen]

To replace my earlier post, here's the update in how the EU Summit candidacies are going:

Leaders emerged frustrated on Monday from the all-night talks, with French President Emmanuel Macron dubbing them a failure and saying there could be no further EU enlargement without reforms to enable smoother functioning.

His initial deal with Angela Merkel to endorse Timmermans collapsed as the weakened German chancellor failed to deliver her fellow centre-right peers.

Merkel’s own pick to lead the Commission, German Manfred Weber, was rejected earlier in the process.

But diplomats and officials said Merkel was still insisting that the next head of the EU executive must – like Weber – be a lead candidate proposed by political groups within the European Parliament.

Timmermans and the bloc’s current top competition official in Brussels, Danish liberal Margrethe Vestager, are the others. Weber’s consolation prize could be the presidency of the new EU assembly for half of the new five-year term, sources said.

Candidates have until Tuesday evening to file applications for that role.

The parliament’s spokesman said the post would be filled on Wednesday, whether or not national leaders reach agreement on Tuesday.

That'll be interesting if they still cannot agree.

I think Timmermans will get it.

 

[ceptimus]

It's difficult to negotiate when one side (the UK) doesn't appear to have a clue what it wants aside from "everything for free" which isn't really a negotiating position.

It's difficult to negotiate when one side (the EU) won't agree to discuss anything except how much money you must give them to leave and how much control they'll impose on you after you've left. You may be allowed to discuss the things you want (such as free trade deals) only after you've agreed to their preconditions and left - but there's no certainty that they'll offer anything once you've paid and agreed to their legally binding terms.

 

[The Don]

It's difficult to negotiate when one side (the EU) won't agree to discuss anything except how much money you must give them to leave and how much control they'll impose on you after you've left. You may be allowed to discuss the things you want (such as free trade deals) only after you've agreed to their preconditions and left - but there's no certainty that they'll offer anything once you've paid and agreed to their legally binding terms.

Well that's a very distorted way to look at things

Then again the only way in which Brexit makes any sense is if you completely misrepresent the benefits and obligations of EU membership and have a fantastical idea as to what the post-Brexit position would be, so a distorted version of the negotiation process is hardly surprising.

 

[ceptimus]

Can you explain why it's distorted?

It's a fact that the EU will not discuss future trading arrangements until after we've left, and the only way we can leave smoothly (they've said they WILL NOT reopen the withdrawal agreement) is to agree to pay over the leaving money and agree to be bound into their customs union after we've left, until they decide to release us.

Their customs union prevents us agreeing free trade deals with any other countries, so the EU is effectively saying we can only leave providing we enter into a legally binding agreement that deprives us of the key benefit of leaving - and the EU can choose to lock us into that agreement for ever.

 

[Vixen]

<rant> So Merkel wins out. Not managing to push through EPP member Weber, Von der Leyen, her foreign minister is put forward instead...and succeeds, displacing the favourite, Frans Timmermans of the Netherlands. Another disappointing development is the appointment of Christine Lagarde as Chief EU Banker, touted by mountbanke Macron.

It seems to prove that the EU Parliament is dominated by Germany and France and the small countries, such as the Netherlands and Finland are just ridden over roughshod (Rehn and Liikanen were easily the best choice for the EC Bank role). Instead we get virtue signalling by putting forward a couple of has-beens and lauded as being 'wimmin'. I would have preferred Danish female Vestager to anything Merkel puts forward if gender virtual signalling is the deciding factor. Wait! She is not German or French.

EU leaders have picked German Defence Minister Ursuala von der Leyen for the top post of European Commission chief, after a marathon three-day summit.

A close ally of Chancellor Angela Merkel, Ms Von der Leyen's nomination came as a surprise after the main front-runners were rejected.

If approved by the European Parliament she will become the first female Commission president.

IMF head Christine Lagarde, has been nominated for the head of the ECB.

. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48847200

In a momentary flash of bitterness I suddenly identified with the Brexit Party. Send in the Spitfires! <sfx youth is a new generation dambusters theme> Bloody Germans!

I'll be all right once I've had a lie down. </rant>

 

[catsmate]

Can you explain why it's distorted?

Because it's at variance with factual reality as opposed to Brexiteer nonsense.

 

[ceptimus]

Because it's at variance with factual reality as opposed to Brexiteer nonsense in my opinion

FTFY,

I know it's harder to actually address the argument than attack the opposing side, but you might at least make an effort.

 

[Vixen]

Sebastion Kurz* on the appointment of Von der Leyen:

Congratulations to Ursula von der Leyen @bmvonderleyer for having been proposed by #EUCO as President of the European #Commission. She is highly qualified for leading this important #EU institution and will have the support of @volkspartei in the European Parliament.

That says it all.

*That Sebastian Kurz:

Monday, just after 4 p.m., he became the first Austrian chancellor since 1945 to lose a no-confidence vote, as his former coalition partner, the far-right Freedom Party, and the opposition Social Democrats joined forces to bring down his government in the wake of the so-called Ibiza affair.

 

[Vixen]

In an article with the headline EU're Joking the SUN echoes my own reservations:

She [von der Leyen] has also been a staunch supporter of the German government’s position in the negotiations, including “no renegotiation” of the backstop.

And in 2011 she said: “My goal is the United States of Europe — based on the model of the federal states of Switzerland, Germany or the US.” Mr Borrell has repeatedly baited Britain over Gibraltar’s future, saying Brexit will drive the territory into the arms of Madrid.

While federalist Mr Michel has backed French president Emmanuel Macron’s hardline stance on Brexit, saying in 2017: “When you push that Brexit button, there is a bill to pay.”

Last night Mr Macron upped the ante by declaring the EU must have “no fear” of letting Britain leave without a deal on October 31.

So the UK would under von der Leyen's dream be subsumed by a federation controlled by Germany. Nein, nein,nein.

The Spanish guy has his eye on Gibraltar.

I'm like a character in Enid Blyton's The Faraway Tree who's stepped through the portal at the top of the tree to transform into a Brexit Party supporter. Oh look, there's Ann Widdecombe knitting a chicken.

Quark, cluck, cluck, cluck.

Where's Corbyn? Where is the antidote?

 

[a_unique_person]

It's difficult to negotiate when one side (the UK) doesn't appear to have a clue what it wants aside from "everything for free" which isn't really a negotiating position.



Yes we know that the Brexiteers will hope to blame the EU for all the negative consequences of our self-inflicted pain and with enough support from the right wing press they might even succeed.

It's worse than that. A deal was negotiated. The UK can't agree with itself what it wants. Every possible option had a majority voting against it. No option had a majority voting for it. What can the EU do about that?

 

[catsmate]

FTFY,

I know it's harder to actually address the argument than attack the opposing side, but you might at least make an effort.

I'll address an 'argument' when (if) you make one, rather than re-hashing Brexiteer lies.

 

[catsmate]

It's worse than that. A deal was negotiated. The UK can't agree with itself what it wants. Every possible option had a majority voting against it. No option had a majority voting for it. What can the EU do about that?

Throw the Bridiots out and let them wallow in the crapulent morass of their own incompetence, greed and xenophobia