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Einstein and God

RobRoy

Not A Mormon
RobRoy
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I remember reading somewhere, perhaps on these very forums, that the relationship between Einstein and his beliefs in God were greatly misunderstood. Further, that Einstein's quotes which include God are often taken out of context.

Can someone please explain the relationship between Einstein and his beliefs about God?
 
Like Hawking ('We will finally know the mind of God'), Einstein allegedly used 'God' as a word for the laws of the Universe. His famous phrase 'God does not play dice..' is best viewed after observing the following quote from Sagan:

The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity.
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He may have been a deist, but as for his views on a personal God, these words from a recently auctioned letter sheds huge swathes of light on the question:

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.

No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this,"
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Those quotes would appear to be a fairly cherry picked list. I think a more balanced view is needed in order to get a better picture. That list, for instance, does not include the following quotes:

When directly asked if he believed in the God of Spinoza: "I can't answer with a simple yes or no," he replied. "I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God." (1929)

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." (1941)

"In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such views."
(Statement to German anti-Nazi diplomat and author Prince Hubertus zu Lowenstein around 1941, as quoted in his book Towards the Further Shore : An Autobiography (1968) )

My suspicions are that it can be pretty hard to pin down his beliefs as they were probably changing throughout his life.

I know if someone had access to as many quotes from me throughout my life as they do from Einstein, one could probably draw all kinds of conclusions about what I believe, some of which would be contradictory (especially if taken 20 years apart).
 
Egg said:
Those quotes would appear to be a fairly cherry picked list.
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I quoted "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses.. Bible a collection of.. primitive legends which are.. pretty childish.", as it was written in a private letter. I'd argue that a this has more insight into his personal thoughts than public statements. Therefore, I don't think the accusation of cherry picking is fair. I wouldn't have much quarrel with the claim he was a deist, but I think we can quite clearly see he was certainly not a theistic man.
 
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Science does not require personalities to be science.

Religion cannot function without personalities.

It matters not one jot what Einstein, or any great scientist believes (Newton believed all sorts of strange stuff).

Imposing the personality requirements of religion into the scientific world is repugnant and unnecessary.

E will continue to equal MC2 and to be a useful tool until evidence is presented that it is either wrong or that a better tool is available.

Einstein believing in fairies, pixies, elves or nothing at all is irrelevant.

The childish fixation of the absolute necessity of personalities in the minds of the religious has no place in science.

The mere suggestion that it is important should be met with the simple sentence "His/Her beliefs or lack of them do not matter. What matters is evidence - and only evidence".

You could then add "Religions demand acceptance without any evidence whatsoever" - If you were so inclined.



As to what Einstein actually believed - no one knows except Einstein - he's not telling - and I don't care.
 
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I sometimes wonder why the religious assume that their pathetic compulsion to abase themselves before a perceived superior personality and to grovel in worship is shared by the scientific community.

Do they assume that science require a personality to worship and that Einstein is to science what Jesus is to Christians?

Are they incapable of thinking outside the cage of their servitude?

I would propose that it is Einstein's work and evidence that is important and far from being held in a position of worship by science, is just the opposite.

Any scientist would be absolutely delighted if they could show the world that Einstein's work is wrong and no longer an appropriate tool. Should someone achieve such a thing all of Einstein's work would perhaps fade from the world much like the ideas about Phlogiston.

Would any credible scientist, once faced with evidence he has discovered that Einstein was very wrong, decide not to publish because it would destroy Einstein's work. I think not.
 
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H3LL said:
Science does not require personalities to be science.

Religion cannot function without personalities.

It matters not one jot what Einstein, or any great scientist believes (Newton believed all sorts of strange stuff).

Imposing the personality requirements of religion into the scientific world is repugnant and unnecessary.
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Who in this thread is saying such things?

The beliefs a man such as Einstein had about the Universe are interesting.
 
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H3LL said:
It matters not one jot what Einstein, or any great scientist believes (Newton believed all sorts of strange stuff).
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Back story: My wife asked me this question, and I only had limited knowledge. I did some research, but couldn't come up with much. I decided to ask the folk here, since they are generally quite knowledgeable and a decent discussion would probably give me a balanced view.

I like my wife, and wanted to give her the answer she requested. I was curious myself about this. In that regard, it does matter at least one jot, to me and another jot to my wife. But thanks for your opinion, even if it didn't add to the discussion.
 
If you ask the looney religious, they will tell you that:

Einstein was a christian, because although he denied believing in anything but the "god as the laws of the physics," he said "God does not play dice with the universe." Meanwhile, Hitler was an atheist, even though he said, "I believe that by killing the Jews I am doing the work of God and Jesus Christ."

No, it's not supposed to make sense.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
I quoted "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses.. Bible a collection of.. primitive legends which are.. pretty childish.", as it was written in a private letter. I'd argue that a this has more insight into his personal thoughts than public statements. Therefore, I don't think the accusation of cherry picking is fair. I wouldn't have much quarrel with the claim he was a deist, but I think we can quite clearly see he was certainly not a theistic man.
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I'm aware of that quote and where it comes from. It's hard to know what credence we put on that above all other information. Was he close to Eric Gutkind? Might he have just disliked the message in the book he had been sent and responded accordingly? As far as I'm aware this isn't a letter to his closest friend and intellectual ally. I'm not sure your argument about a personal letter carries as much weight as you suggest.

I know there was plenty of excitement from some quarters about that letter. Rumour has it that Richard Dawkins put in a high bid for it at auction. I don't like the idea that he gets used to support atheist views, mostly because apparently, he didn't like it. I wouldn't be comfortable with him being used to support religious views either since he considered many of them childish. That said, some of his quotes are great and I guess we can all take what we want from them.

Arguably a deist is a type of theist, but yes it's clear that any kind of God Einstein did believe in was not personal. By "cherry picked" I was referring to the list Dr A linked to.
 
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westprog said:
Do you have a source for that quote? It doesn't appear on Google.
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I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work.

- Adolf Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936
 
Why is it so important to everyone what Einstein thought about gods? He was a physicist, not a philosopher.

Does anyone care what Dinesh D'Souza's has to say about quantum data buffering?
 
Third Eye Open said:
Why is it so important to everyone what Einstein thought about gods? He was a physicist, not a philosopher.

Does anyone care what Dinesh D'Souza's has to say about quantum data buffering?
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I doubt anyone cares what D'Souza has to say..at all.
 
paximperium said:
I doubt anyone cares what D'Souza has to say..at all.
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Well, some other philosopher then. That is just the first name I thought of.

What I mean is, why do people care what scientists think about gods? It's not like they are experts in the area.
In the same way no one cares what philosophers think about science, unless it involves ethics.
 
Third Eye Open said:
Well, some other philosopher then. That is just the first name I thought of.

What I mean is, why do people care what scientists think about gods? It's not like they are experts in the area.
In the same way no one cares what philosophers think about science, unless it involves ethics.
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Maybe some feel that if Einstein believed in god, then their personal beliefs might somehow be validated. Others might simply be understandably curious. I mean we're talking about Einstein, for Christ's sake: arguably one of the greatest minds ever. I can certainly see why some would be interested in what he might have said about whether there is or isn't a god, his definition of god, etc.
 
gentlehorse said:
Maybe some feel that if Einstein believed in god, then their personal beliefs might somehow be validated. Others might simply be understandably curious. I mean we're talking about Einstein, for Christ's sake: arguably one of the greatest minds ever. I can certainly see why some would be interested in what he might have said about whether there is or isn't a god, his definition of god, etc.
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Einstein was one of the greatest minds who ever lived. But he got his girlfriend pregnant, with unpleasant results. Smart people can do stupid things, and believe stupid things. (The reverse is not true).

It remains interesting exactly what Einstein's opinions on religion may have been. Not that his opinion is necessarily more valid than anyone else's, but that it sheds some light on an interesting man.
 
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