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Editorial on Science

Ipecac

Graduate Poster
Joined
Feb 8, 2002
Messages
1,846
Wow this is stupid. This is from my home town newspaper. I no longer live there.

Click here for stupidity

How does bias relate to science? Science can be divided into two general categories as either operation (hard) science, which is testable, occurs in the present and is repeatable, or origin (soft) science that is based on analysis of information about the past.

As an example, how would you scientifically prove if dinosaurs exist today? Operationally, you would need to have one person on every point of the world looking in every direction at the same time with 100 percent observational abilities to collect all data. The existence of living dinosaurs cannot be determined by looking at their dead bones. The creationist bias says there could be living dinosaurs and evolutionist bias says they died out millions of years ago. They both have the same data but their bias determines what they believe.

I'm tempted to send in a response.
 
From your link:
While science supports creation, it must be understood that both creation and evolution are religious views. Neither can be explained by science and therefore must be held to by one's bias and belief system.
These statements are unsupported assertions and pure BS.

Evolution is not a religious view, but a scientific explanation of the data we have, consistent with all the current data and repeatedly tested against new data.

Creationism is not a religious view either. Creationism is nonsense based on bible literalism, denial of reality, and deliberate ignorance.
 
It seems that I'm not the only one that's noticing a swell of stupidity in science magazines. Two months ago, the editor in chief of Chemistry and Engineering news wrote an article suggesting that the name of the magazine be changed to The Journal of Molecular Sciences to avoid the word 'chemistry'. They were flooded with angry letters. I was surprised to see the editor had the guts to publish some of them, considering that he was being totally reamed. I would like to have seen the ones that weren't published.
 
Here are more examples of operational science evidence that fit the creation model and not evolution: conservation of angular momentum and planetary rotation, short-lived comets, missing meteorites in fossil layers, mutations decrease genetic information, Niagara Falls erosion rate and the Sahara desert still expanding.
Eh?????

How the flipping heck do any of those support creationism? :confused:

Come to think of it, how does mutation decrease genetic information? :confused:

He has placed laws and processes in place that can be tested and bear witness that his word, the Bible, is true.
Yeah, like all those passages in the bible that tell us about QM, relativity, organic chemistry........... :nope:
 
wollery said:
Eh?????

Come to think of it, how does mutation decrease genetic information? :confused:

Deletion. Or losing a chromosome, that would get rid of a lot of info.:D
 
Bruce said:
It seems that I'm not the only one that's noticing a swell of stupidity in science magazines. Two months ago, the editor in chief of Chemistry and Engineering news wrote an article suggesting that the name of the magazine be changed to The Journal of Molecular Sciences to avoid the word 'chemistry'. They were flooded with angry letters. I was surprised to see the editor had the guts to publish some of them, considering that he was being totally reamed. I would like to have seen the ones that weren't published.

Of course, the suggestion was based on a stupid premise: that too many chemists are doing things besides traditional chemistry.

I think the entire attitude was backwards. Chemists should be proud of the fact that they are essential components in all sorts of burgeoining fields. Why should it be a concern that chemists are taking jobs in Biomedical Engineering? It's the great breadth of chemistry that makes it so great. So many possibilities. We're just taking over!

(it's kind of like how I give my inorganic friends crap when we (organic chemists) publish something in the Inorg journals - we're taking over, dudes!)
 
Here are more examples of operational science evidence that fit the creation model and not evolution: conservation of angular momentum and planetary rotation, short-lived comets, missing meteorites in fossil layers, mutations decrease genetic information, Niagara Falls erosion rate and the Sahara desert still expanding.
wollery said:
Eh?????

How the flipping heck do any of those support creationism? :confused:
Well of course he doesn't give the arguments. Because there are no good ones. I've come across some of the bad ones.
The Law of Angular Momentum declares that radial motion as produced in an exploding bomb or the so-called Big Bang explosion cannot change into orbital or circular motion or condense into lumps in space without an outside force. What is the outside force that gave us condensing, spinning planets and revolving galaxies? Physics and chemistry have no answer.
--- Dr Jolly F Griggs, from www.creationism.org

Chemistry, no. Chemistry wouldn't. That's not what chemists do. When he says that physics has no answer, though, it is clear that this incredibly arrogant, lazy, and ignorant man has never bothered to ask a physicist for an answer, or to look in a textbook on cosmology, or to learn any physics. The answer, let me give you a hint, begins with the letter "G" and is not "God".

Obviously, the Big Bang has nothing whatsoever to do with evolution. But people who both deny real science and are ignorant of it (the two go together, of course --- you can't deny science if you know anything about it) constantly pretend that there is a relationship, though they can't explain what it is.
Each time a comet orbits the sun a prodigious amount of mass is lost. Comets are small, averaging perhaps a kilometer in diameter.

They cannot sustain many orbits before they disintegrate and disappear. Short period comets last for about 10,000 years. Multitudes of short-period comets in the heavens are witnesses that the solar system is young.
--- same source

Short period comets can indeed only survive about five hundred passes around the sun. The comet with the shortest period is Enke's comet, with a period of only 3.3 years, from which we deduce that the Universe was created around the fourth century A.D. Or that Enke's comet hasn't always been in the same orbit: you decide.
Mutations (rare and random changes in complex living systems) do not provide new traits to be selected.
--- same source.

A mutation is by definition a new piece of genetic information. Anyone ignorant of what a mutation is should not presume to lecture others on evolution.

I haven't seen the gibble about the Sahara, but I think I can guess --- fundamentalists only have a few basic stupid mistakes to play with. I think this is a re-run of the mistake about the comet. So I'm guessing that the argument goes like this: "If we assume (for no reason) that the Sahara desert has been growing in area at a continous rate since the beginning of the world (which is known by scientists to be false) then we could use it to date the age of the world. In the same way, applying the same reasoning to the height of my niece, I find that the world was created in 1999.

How the slow erosion of Niagra Falls indicates a young earth is entirely beyond me. As I said, an argument which is concealed can't be refuted. Can anyone dig up this argument so we can see where it's rotten?

The "missing meteorites" is a new one on me. He's going to claim that there aren't enough of them given their current rate of deposition, and he will, of course, be wrong. The error will presumably lie in the idea that meteorites are indestructible. Nonetheless, as I say, I haven't seen this one, I'm just guessing. Perhaps you could ask the "Bad Astronomy" chap, he might know.
 
Dr Adequate said:
How the slow erosion of Niagra Falls indicates a young earth is entirely beyond me. As I said, an argument which is concealed can't be refuted. Can anyone dig up this argument so we can see where it's rotten?


I've seen this one. It is basically that Niagra Falls is eroding at X meters a year, and at that rate could not have been formed before Y years ago.

The fact that this only addresses the age of Niagra Falls and not the age of the earth is apparently too confusing for them to understand.
 
Science can be divided into two general categories as either operation (hard) science, which is testable, occurs in the present and is repeatable, or origin (soft) science that is based on analysis of information about the past.
This is absolutely false.

In the first place, that is not the distinction between hard science and soft science.

In the second place the science of evolution (which I presume the author wishes to classify under "origin science") is of course carried out in the present, and is of course subjectable to repeatable tests --- or it wouldn't be a science. So by the erroneous defintion given, it is hard science. (By the definition given, all science is hard science.)
 
pgwenthold said:
I've seen this one. It is basically that Niagra Falls is eroding at X meters a year, and at that rate could not have been formed before Y years ago.

The fact that this only addresses the age of Niagra Falls and not the age of the earth is apparently too confusing for them to understand.
Thanks, pgwenthold.

In short, it's exactly the same mistake as with the comets and the Sahara --- "If I assume without proof and contrary to known facts that this thing or process has existed forever, then as scientists say it has only existed for a short time, this proves that forever is a short time."
 

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