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Dying motherboard?

El Greco

Summer worshipper
El Greco
Joined
Nov 11, 2003
Messages
17,604
It all started when the PC wouldn't boot when I was pressing the button. For a couple of weeks, I had to press the reset button a couple of minutes after I had turned the PC on, and then it would beep once and boot normally. Everything was normal as long as the PC was warm. I could shut it down and open it again without problems. But if I let it cool for a few hours then it wouldn't boot immediately; I had to press the reset.

During the last week it kept going worse and worse. It needs more and more time of warming up before it can boot. I tried a different PSU to no avail. I removed several components like all drives and PCI cards, still the same problem. This morning it only booted up when I pressed the reset button after I had left it on for about 2 hours. There are no beeps at all, only the usual single beep when it finally manages to boot.

I gather this must be the motherboard's dying rattle. Is there any way to save it ?
 
Uhmm... I guess it's not a switch problem, since the drives and the PSU work fine when I press the button, it just won't boot. And this happens only when it's cold, when it's been running for an hour or two I can shut it down and power it up again without problems.

AUP you are right, nothing is a problem with enough money, it's just that this is a rather old socket 470 motherboard that I can't find new anymore. It has a PIII @ 1000 MHz with a small fan. The small fan allows for the PSU to be placed right above it, which allows for the most compact case I've ever had, which in turn is important for the limited space I have to bury that PC in. And it also has an ISA slot which is just what I need for my SB AWE64 Gold (old games, etc). So I'd have to search in the used market and it would be a fuss... I already have two other PCs with P4s > 3MHz, so I kinda cherish that little brother of theirs.

BTW, does any LGA775 motherboard come with an ISA slot these days ?
 
El Greco said:
Uhmm... I guess it's not a switch problem, since the drives and the PSU work fine when I press the button, it just won't boot. And this happens only when it's cold, when it's been running for an hour or two I can shut it down and power it up again without problems.
Click to expand...

You could stop turning it off 8-)

Could be the hard drives aren't spinning up quickly enough. Got a spare drive you can test with?
 
I would remove the RAM, and reseat it... and I would clear the bios, and possibly flash it with a bios flash utility (you can usually download these from the mobo manufacturer's website).

It could simply be the processor... if it's temperature related, it could be the processor's internal heat auto-shut-off is confused. Most processors (from the Pentium 1 to current) have an auto-shut-off fail-safe for when the processor gets too HOT (this prevents damage to the processor by stopping all processing and shutting it down)... it could be that the processor's sensor is busted, or it's otherwise confused... maybe when the processor is at room temperature, it's in the "shut down" range, but after heating, it wraps around to being seen as "cool enough to run"...

I'd check for used CPUs of the same type/speed... they're relatively cheap... Figure $10 (check Ebay or a used computer store around your location).

Otherwise, it could be the motherboard's own heat sensor... the BIOS has its own shut-down temp, which is why I recommended checking/resetting/flashing the BIOS (in that order).
 
Depending on the bios and operating system, see if you can set it to boot with an informative screen rather than the usual manufacturer's logo. On mine it's listed in the bios setup as "boot time diagnostic screen." I have a similar intermittent problem with mine (Dell with win98), and it stalls at the point where it would ordinarily detect the drives or the drive controllers. There's no beep, no indication of anything awry, it just stops. A second (power-off, not reset button) reboot will usually start it right up. By the way it's been doing this for about 4 years. I'm still not sure whether it's the motherboard, or the drive not spinning up, but as long as it restarts, I figure why worry.

Anyway, even if you can't find a diagnostic screen, next time it does this, try cycling the power, rather than the reset button. It makes a difference on mine.
 
I did remove and reseat memory and cards and also flashed the BIOS. I was also cycling the power as well as pressing the reset button. I'm the type of guy who will try almost anything before asking for help :D

I haven't shut the PC down during the weekend, but sooner or later there will be a power failure :D

Someone suggested that it may be a problem of the capacitors. I know what a capacitor looks like and I could probably find some of the same type and solder them on the motherboard, but how do I figure out whether it is really a capacitor fault ?
 
El Greco said:
Someone suggested that it may be a problem of the capacitors. I know what a capacitor looks like and I could probably find some of the same type and solder them on the motherboard, but how do I figure out whether it is really a capacitor fault ?
Click to expand...

Capacitors may explode/leak... The best sign of a capacitor gone bad is when the top of it is bulged, cracked, or has an icky substance oozing from the top.

Usually you can get new capacitors at Radio Shack... simply find the size/type of capacitor you need to replace. I've successfully done a capacitor replacement on a mobo before... but it's a tricky operation.

There WAS a case recently where a Chinese manufacturer stole the solution formula for their capacitors from a Japanese company in a case of industrial espionage... the Japanese company, however, practiced a little bit of counter-espionage by making the solution formula slightly off so if anyone stole it, they'd get bad capacitors. These capacitors were sold to mobo manufacturers such as Gigabyte and Asus. (This is during the time that the Pentium 3 was dominant)... about a year later, the capacitors would predictably blow... I was amazed at the number of bad motherboards we had coming in to my little computer repair shop... mainly with power regulation problems due to leaking/blown capacitors.

This specific example is likely not the cause of YOUR problem, but I give it just to show that stuff like this DOES happen. :)
 
EagleEye said:
Usually you can get new capacitors at Radio Shack... simply find the size/type of capacitor you need to replace. I've successfully done a capacitor replacement on a mobo before... but it's a tricky operation.
Click to expand...
Gotta be extra careful here, for many types of capicitors if you mount them backwards they'll explode. Boy was that a fun class!

There WAS a case recently where a Chinese manufacturer stole the solution formula for their capacitors from a Japanese company in a case of industrial espionage... the Japanese company, however, practiced a little bit of counter-espionage by making the solution formula slightly off so if anyone stole it, they'd get bad capacitors. These capacitors were sold to mobo manufacturers such as Gigabyte and Asus.
Click to expand...

This is still an ongoing problem. That formula, or other imperfect ones, seems to have been leaked (pun intended) everywhere. Apple and Dell are both currently having problems with bad capictor issues.
 
If it's temperature related, it could be a bad connection or dry joint somewhere.
The heating up of the motherboard would probably warp it slightly and improve the contact.
 
I have a similar problem with my desktop.

I dont think its worth the time and money of swapping various components in and out. I'm waiting till the January sales then buying a new system.
 
Depending on where you keep the computer case, it could be a power supply problem. Namely, the power supply could be full of dust and fuzz drawn in by the cooling fan. When I used to do on-site repairs of PC's, I'd regularly replace about one or two a week that were choked with carpet lint. Even though the power supplies are marked "no user serviceable parts inside," you can open them up by removing a couple of screws and vacuuming the interior (with the power removed, obviously). It's worth a try, and costs only a little time.

Beanbag
 
Beanbag said:
Depending on where you keep the computer case, it could be a power supply problem. Namely, the power supply could be full of dust and fuzz drawn in by the cooling fan. When I used to do on-site repairs of PC's, I'd regularly replace about one or two a week that were choked with carpet lint. Even though the power supplies are marked "no user serviceable parts inside," you can open them up by removing a couple of screws and vacuuming the interior (with the power removed, obviously). It's worth a try, and costs only a little time.

Beanbag
Click to expand...

What works better is the blower end of a shop-vac. :) No unscrewing necessary.

Although, I'd take the thing outside before blowing it out...
 
The point is that as I've said in the opening post, I've already tried a diferent PSU to no avail. As for getting a new one, no problem, but where do I find a new one with an ISA slot ?

BTW, I haven't shut it down since.
 
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