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Dumbing down schools for equity

HoverBoarder

Graduate Poster
HoverBoarder
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May 18, 2011
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Some states including California and Oregon have decided that the best way to address racial inequities in graduation rates and grade levels is to dumb down curriculum and standards. These ideas including that "math is racist," and other denunciations of core educational components, are based on the very ironically racist notion that people of color cannot mentally handle basic educational subjects.

Dumbing down educational standards could increase graduation rates, but at what cost? After all, this is already the country where half of respondents thought that the A&W 1/3 pound burger is a ripoff compared to the McDonald's 1/4 pound burger since 3 is less than 4. Do businesses really want a less educated workforce? Who would want a bank teller applicant who was taught that there are no wrong answers in math?

With the move to remove 'racist' phrases such as "wrong answer," and remove any proficiency standards for basic reading, writing, or math for graduation as Oregon has done, the question really remains. Are these moves to dumb down schools good for the students? If anything it creates a wealth barrier where any student not able to afford supplemental education or tutoring for what the schools cut out, will be at a much more severe disadvantage to what they are facing currently. Is that equity?
 
still better than erasing problematic history and replacing science with religion, as it the norm in the South.
 
Hoverboarder,

Did anything new happen lately to trigger this thread, or was it just on your mind?

It's not that I disagree with you, it's just that I don't know if there's something new, or generic ranting about long term trends.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Don't we already have a critical race theory thread for this nonsense?
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That's quite a big difference from signing a law that says that you don't need basic reading, math, or writing skills to graduate high school.

Do you think that is a good idea?
 
HoverBoarder said:
That's quite a big difference from signing a law that says that you don't need basic reading, math, or writing skills to graduate high school.

Do you think that is a good idea?
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What exams do you have to take to graduate high school and what grades are a pass?
 
The Great Zaganza said:
still better than erasing problematic history and replacing science with religion, as it the norm in the South.
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Both are bad, but do you really think that is worse?

School administrators might look better if they replace graduation certificates with participation certificates, but they would be doing so to the detriment of the students who receive them. Especially with fewer and fewer students able to read what's on the paper.
 
This trend of "dumbing down" society in the name of "equality" is disturbing. It doesn't bode well for the future of the country, imo.
 
Semi related: when purchasing something that costs, say, $1.76, I'll give the cashier $2 and a penny. I can't count how many times they have been perplexed by this. Really seems like kids don't think in practical terms, and have an oddly linear way of reasoning.
 
Thermal said:
Semi related: when purchasing something that costs, say, $1.76, I'll give the cashier $2 and a penny. I can't count how many times they have been perplexed by this. Really seems like kids don't think in practical terms, and have an oddly linear way of reasoning.
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I was just about to mention a recent visit to McDonald's, the cost was $18.10, I gave the girl with antifreeze colored hair a twenty dollar bill and a dime. She said, "You gave me ten cents too much.", gave me my dime back, along with another ninety cents in change and a single dollar bill. I asked why she didn't just give me two dollar bills back. "That would throw my register off." :boggled:
 
I don't know. I've been reading about dumb kids and low standards literally all of my life. I wonder how to measure whether or not it is real?

Things like the change anecdote don't work, for at least two reasons. First, I remember my dad complaining about it in the 1970s. Second, kids these days don't use cash. Of course they won't have experience dealing with it. It's more of a culture shift than an intellectual challenge.
 
Meadmaker said:
I don't know. I've been reading about dumb kids and low standards literally all of my life. I wonder how to measure whether or not it is real?

Things like the change anecdote don't work, for at least two reasons. First, I remember my dad complaining about it in the 1970s. Second, kids these days don't use cash. Of course they won't have experience dealing with it. It's more of a culture shift than an intellectual challenge.
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Ok, but the change thing is about efficiency, not familiarity. It only takes a few minutes on the job for a cashier (who by definition kind of needs to understand how coins work) to pick up on the pattern of least amount of coins used.

Also, my dad bitched about change too, but it was more along the lines of doing the workers being able to do math in their heads. This is more along the lines of practical reasoning.
 
Meadmaker said:
I don't know. I've been reading about dumb kids and low standards literally all of my life. I wonder how to measure whether or not it is real?
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Well, that is a good question. Probably in some test that we won't administer, because it would be discriminatory to do so.

But, what we are seeing here is practically legislation of stupidity. I think it would be hard to argue that if you lower educational standards, the result will not be less-educated people.
 
Darat said:
What exams do you have to take to graduate high school and what grades are a pass?
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In the US, there is no single "Passing Exam" for a High School diploma;it's all about passing the individual courses.
 
Warp12 said:
Well, that is a good question. Probably in some test that we won't administer, because it would be discriminatory to do so.

But, what we are seeing here is practically legislation of stupidity. I think it would be hard to argue that if you lower educational standards, the result will not be less-educated people.
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But it isn't. if you mean the Oregon law, it's changing what "graduating high school" means.

I'm not sure it's a great idea, but I don't think it's the end of academic achievement. In my day (1970s), the standards were so low that all but a handful graduated, which meant the diploma was primarily an attendance certificate. This law just makes it official. Let's be real.
Some people aren't very smart, and there are jobs that don't require it. Giving an attendance certificate might make more sense for those people anyway. The real standards in my day were test scores and/or college admissions. I'm sure that's still the case. Maybe changing how, or if, the state rates people at age 18 might not be such a bad thing.

I see other signs of decay, but I'm not sure that it's a real problem. I don't feel like I'm surrounded by idiots in my day to day life, and I work with some pretty smart young people.
 
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dudalb said:
In the US, there is no single "Passing Exam" for a High School diploma;it's all about passing the individual courses.
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I think some states have introduced proficiency exams. I don't know, because I've just seen headlines over the years, do I haven't kept straight who has them, and who does not, and whether different places have proposed, enacted,or repealed the requirements.
 
The implied message of this thread is that these measures to dumb down education are only justified with the racist notion that it is too difficult to adequately teach students of color, and the core affects of these measures will exacerbate racial inequity in schools. I would argue that the efforts to diminish education disproportionally will adversely affect students of color. They are some of the most racist developments in schools in decades.

In some of the articles highlighting the issues of systemic racism in schools, the tragically low levels of African American reading levels and competency in core subjects were highlighted.

It is hard for anyone to argue that these measures would improve either of those areas. Based on that rationale, If those areas are used as examples of systemic racism in schools, and these measures make it worse, than it is fair to say that the efforts to dumb down schools are effectively efforts to increase systemic racism in schools.
 
Warp12 said:
This trend of "dumbing down" society in the name of "equality" is disturbing. It doesn't bode well for the future of the country, imo.
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Sorry, Pied Piper Trump already derailed half the country into the La La Land of White Purity and replacement theory.

Here's the real news: What women in her right mind wants your* baby?


I mean, c'mon, who wants an armed brat running around the house demanding you wipe his butt? Then there are the children....




*Plural use of "your", in case clueless.
 
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