Does the Bible make God stupid and insecure?

[acbytesla]

Does the Bible make God out to be stupid and insecure?

Is it just me?

But it seems to me that the Christian story if God makes him/her/it to be stupid and insecure.

IMV, if there is a god that created the universe, this being would be smart and secure in his/her self.

After all, this being reportedly created the entire universe. That's a billion trillion stars and probably 5 times that many planets surrounding each star. Almost 9 million species on earth with a few hundreds of one species to trillions of another. That's pretty badass if you ask me.

Yet the Christian bible is filled with commands that we praise and worship this being. Given everything this being has supposedly done, do you really think this badass being would want and need that from one of those species?

Then take a look at the story of Jesus. God created the earth by simply saying it. Yet to forgive man for not praising him enough, he impregnated a jewish woman and transformed himself into the child of that woman so that child could be tortured and killed?

Even the dumbest person would simply forgive man instead of going through such a farcical scheme.

Am I wrong?

 

[arthwollipot]

There are many atheists who would agree with you.

I doubt you'd find many Christians who would.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The biblical God talks and acts like a jealous husband who will punish for transgressions real or imagined; he is scared that people will leave him, fully aware that there are other, much better Gods out there.

 

[acbytesla]

There are many atheists who would agree with you.

I doubt you'd find many Christians who would.

I don't know about that. Even when I was a Christian, I thought that was the weakest part of the story. I think a lot of Christians struggle with that. They may accept it and still think the explanation given for it is troublesome.

 

[theprestige]

Betteridge's Law of Headlines

 

[bruto]

I figure a real god would be so strange and so utterly other that we'd never figure it out, and given our uncertainty after all this time it's safe to assume it either does not exist in any sense that we can perceive, or does not care. Either way, the ones people have come up with so far seem like little more than some guy saying "this is what I'd do if I were a god," and the result is about as lame as you'd expect.

e.t.a. I would add that the thread heading is not great. The Bible makes a god, but if there were an actual god it would not let anyone make it do or be anything.

 

[Scorpion]

Who cares what it says in the bible, it seems obvious to me God had nothing to do with it.
Its mostly the ramblings of the Jewish tribe trying to elevate themselves. Its no more meaningful than the religious theologies of the ancient Egyptians, or the Romans or Greeks.

But this does not mean there is no God, it just means he leaves us to work things out for ourselves.

 

[arthwollipot]

I don't know about that. Even when I was a Christian, I thought that was the weakest part of the story. I think a lot of Christians struggle with that. They may accept it and still think the explanation given for it is troublesome.

Have you actually spoken to them about it? Or is it just a suspicion based on your own experiences?

I'll tell you my experience - that Christians who think about this at all (and many do not) will say that God is almighty and all-powerful, and all those instances where he seems stupid and insecure are just Satan messing with you and planting doubts in your mind. They would be absolutely firm in their conviction that God is neither stupid nor insecure.

Those Christians who do think that God might be stupid or insecure tend to end up as atheists, like you.

And me.

 

[acbytesla]

I figure a real god would be so strange and so utterly other that we'd never figure it out, and given our uncertainty after all this time it's safe to assume it either does not exist in any sense that we can perceive, or does not care. Either way, the ones people have come up with so far seem like little more than some guy saying "this is what I'd do if I were a god," and the result is about as lame as you'd expect.

e.t.a. I would add that the thread heading is not great. The Bible makes a god, but if there were an actual god it would not let anyone make it do or be anything.

Theists inevitably anthropomorphize their idea of God. The god of the bible has the worst traits of man. He's petty, he's cruel, he's needy and of course God is a "he".

Now if you don't think God is these things you haven't read the bible. The Old Testament is filled with horrible acts either committed by God or ordered by God or done in his name.

His neediness is in almost every part of scripture from the beginning to the end. Consider the Ten commandments. They are emblematic of a narcissistic and a weak need to adored. The first four are essentially about fulfilling that need. The next 5 make some sense and the last one is a thought crime. Can you imagine the economy if people didn't want what their neighbor had?

And if you think the new Testament is better, you have totally forgot Hell. The lake of fire and gnashing of teeth is entirely a New Testament idea. In the Old Testament, God may torture you, but it ends. At least you can ******* die.

 

[acbytesla]

Have you actually spoken to them about it? Or is it just a suspicion based on your own experiences?

I'll tell you my experience - that Christians who think about this at all (and many do not) will say that God is almighty and all-powerful, and all those instances where he seems stupid and insecure are just Satan messing with you and planting doubts in your mind. They would be absolutely firm in their conviction that God is neither stupid nor insecure.

Those Christians who do think that God might be stupid or insecure tend to end up as atheists, like you.

And me.

They would never call God stupid or insecure. On that point, you are right. But pretty much everyone asks the question why doesn't god just forgive man?

 

[arthwollipot]

They would never call God stupid or insecure. On that point, you are right. But pretty much everyone asks the question why doesn't god just forgive man?

"Mysterious ways". God has a plan. Sin and redemption are an important part of that plan. God knows best. *shrug*

All I'm saying is that atheists (and antitheists) interpret the Bible in ways that actual believers do not. And so the objections that atheists (and antitheists) have don't necessarily apply.

 

[Venom]

That is the biggest problem with the Judeo-Christian God, or any god who judges humans. Why does he demand worship and praise? It's so grossly anthropomorphic and many more casual churchgoers don't say it out loud. But I know they're thinking it.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Thing is, the Old Testament God doesn't have an elaborate plan: he tells exactly what he is doing and why.

 

[arthwollipot]

That is the biggest problem with the Judeo-Christian God, or any god who judges humans. Why does he demand worship and praise? It's so grossly anthropomorphic and many more casual churchgoers don't say it out loud. But I know they're thinking it.

Do you? How do you know that?

 

[Venom]

Do you? How do you know that?

I might bring it up one day and they'll tell me I have a point here and there.

I often get told but if this isn't true....then that might not be true either. gasp! So they wind back into their shell and try not to think about it.

 

[arthwollipot]

I might bring it up one day and they'll tell me I have a point here and there.

I often get told but if this isn't true....then that might not be true either. gasp! So they wind back into their shell and try not to think about it.

Right. Any decent Christian will rationalise it somehow in their own mind. They might ask their pastor, if they think it's worth it, who will give them some platitude that satisfies them. If it doesn't... Hi, have you met me? I'm talking from direct personal experience right now.

 

[acbytesla]

"Mysterious ways". God has a plan. Sin and redemption are an important part of that plan. God knows best. *shrug*

All I'm saying is that atheists (and antitheists) interpret the Bible in ways that actual believers do not. And so the objections that atheists (and antitheists) have don't necessarily apply.

Yes, that is how they answer this. I was a Christian for 30 years. But Christians sometimes do talk about these things. Some shrug it off much faster than others. There are Christians with doubts. So yes atheists and antitheists look at it differently, but believers are not monolithic in their thinking.

 

[arthwollipot]

Yes, that is how they answer this. I was a Christian for 30 years. But Christians sometimes do talk about these things. Some shrug it off much faster than others. There are Christians with doubts. So yes atheists and antitheists look at it differently, but believers are not monolithic in their thinking.

That's very true, which is why it's difficult to generalise from one's own experience in one church to all Christians everywhere.

 

[bruto]

Theists inevitably anthropomorphize their idea of God. The god of the bible has the worst traits of man. He's petty, he's cruel, he's needy and of course God is a "he".

Now if you don't think God is these things you haven't read the bible. The Old Testament is filled with horrible acts either committed by God or ordered by God or done in his name.

His neediness is in almost every part of scripture from the beginning to the end. Consider the Ten commandments. They are emblematic of a narcissistic and a weak need to adored. The first four are essentially about fulfilling that need. The next 5 make some sense and the last one is a thought crime. Can you imagine the economy if people didn't want what their neighbor had?

And if you think the new Testament is better, you have totally forgot Hell. The lake of fire and gnashing of teeth is entirely a New Testament idea. In the Old Testament, God may torture you, but it ends. At least you can ******* die.

Since as I recall a theist means more or less a person who believes in a personal god with whom one can deal, it's pretty much a given that such a god will be anthropomorphized. Right from the start, a personal god depends on the limitation of human imagination, an unlikely attribute for an actual god.

I do have to dispute one thing. Coveting is not wanting things like what your neighbor has. It's wanting the very things he has, at his expense. When you covet your neighbor's wife, you're not after her sister.

 

[David Mo]

The god of the Bible is cruel, vindictive, egocentric and botchy... from the point of view of modern-day human beings. It is the image of the men who created it. I don't know very well how Christians fit the stories of their primitive god with their modern way of living. I know quite a few educated Christians who sublimate their beliefs. They recognize that the Bible is a primitive book written by primitive men, but they believe that there is something like a "message" to decipher in it. Why in the Bible and not in Beowulf's poem is long and confusing to explain. What worries me is why the mass of ordinary Christians believe. I think it is a rather complicated subject because there is not a typical Christian, but different answers for the same cult. What I see in forums makes my hair stand on end: it seems that, under the layer of modernity, people are still as primitive as those who dedicated themselves to get rid of the Amalakites. Nothing reassuring.