Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

[Poem]

According to Wikipedia 'rape culture' is:
"a setting, as described by some sociological theories, in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to that setting's attitudes about gender and sexuality. Behaviours commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, slut-shaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, refusing to acknowledge the harm caused by sexual violence, or some combination of these"

Here's Arden Young (a journalist who works at Sound Investigations) who went undercover (in 2023) to interview staff at Pornhub. In her words:

"Rapists and human traffickers use Pornhub to upload illegal videos. Pornhub doesn't care and does not intend to do the due diligence to fix these issues...quote, 'because it makes a lot of money'."

Here she is at a recent (US I think) Congressional Briefing (from which I have quoted her): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzAIYI9byKU

The porn industry is currently worth about $100 billion a year and Pornhub is one of if not the most popular (according to gitnux: Pornhub received over 42 billion visits in 2019, averaging about 115 million visits per day).

So, effectively, millions of people are watching actual rape videos and underage material and thus fuelling the traffickers. (Pornhub: "Sign up to our Amateur Model Program and upload your content to start making money today. All you need to do is create a free account and apply to join the ...").

Back in 2020 Nicholas Kristof of the New York Times exposed the same company with his piece 'The Children of Pornhub'. They were forced to remove 10 million videos (that's 80% of the videos on their website). He wrote:

"Its site is infested with rape videos. It monetizes child rapes, revenge pornography, spy cam videos of women showering, racist and misogynist content, and footage of women being asphyxiated in plastic bags. A search for “girls under18” (no space) or “14yo” leads in each case to more than 100,000 videos. Most aren’t of children being assaulted, but too many are."

Clearly nothing has changed. Rape culture? De facto - yes.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

More relevant than porn is the still common assumption of many that it can't be rape if you are married.

 

[Poem]

More relevant than porn is the still common assumption of many that it can't be rape if you are married.

I guess it depends where you are - in the UK marital rape became a criminal offence in 1991.

Pornhub et al are (probably) viewed everywhere.

 

[theprestige]

I guess it depends where you are - in the UK marital rape became a criminal offence in 1991.

Pornhub et al are (probably) viewed everywhere.

I'd say a rape culture produced the videos in question. I wouldn't say that because some of those videos can be found on Pornhub, therefore a rape culture exists everywhere Pornhub can be found.

You're painting with a very broad brush, leading you to conclude that literally everyone around you harbors rape culture in their hearts and minds, and is likely a crypto-rapist.

That's probably not a healthy way to go through life, if you don't actually live in an actual rape culture.

So no, to answer the question in your thread title: Yes, 'rape culture' as you're defining it accurately describes many societies, but your definition of 'rape culture' is far too broad to be useful.

 

[TragicMonkey]

There's a difference between fantasy and reality. Last night, for entertainment, I watched a TV show in which murder occurred. I do not approve of murder in real life, but I can enjoy fictional murder as entertainment.

 

[theprestige]

There's a difference between fantasy and reality. Last night, for entertainment, I watched a TV show in which murder occurred. I do not approve of murder in real life, but I can enjoy fictional murder as entertainment.

The issue here is not fantasy versus reality. The issue is human traffickers fulfilling the demand for fantasy with a supply of nonconsenting or reluctant performers. And Poem is asking to what degree our pornographers and we their customers are morally complicit in this supply chain of rape.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

There is a lot you can investigate for yourself about the porn industry, including pay for actors and complaints.

If you don't pay for the porn you consume, and don't buy it from a legitimate source, or potentially from the actors directly, than that's the problem.

Porn does not have to be exploitative, even if the subject matter might suggest so

 

[Brainster]

The porn industry is currently worth about $100 billion a year and Pornhub is one of if not the most popular (according to gitnux: Pornhub received over 42 billion visits in 2019, averaging about 115 million visits per day).

The Gitnux site also says this:

In 2019, the U.S was the biggest consumer of Pornhub content accounting for 48.7% of the traffic.

Work it out; that indicates that the site gets 56 million visits per day from the US or roughly 1 /6th of the US population. My skeptic sense is tingling.

 

[3point14]

The Gitnux site also says this:



Work it out; that indicates that the site gets 56 million visits per day from the US or roughly 1 /6th of the US population. My skeptic sense is tingling.

What constitutes a 'visit'?

Does one user viewing 10 different videos count as one or ten visits? If the latter the nit probably all adds up. If the former, then probably not.

 

[Donal]

Do you find it hard to believe 1/6 of the US watches porn? Does that number also account for multiple visits to the site from the same source?

 

[Darat]

The Gitnux site also says this:



Work it out; that indicates that the site gets 56 million visits per day from the US or roughly 1 /6th of the US population. My skeptic sense is tingling.

Yeah - only a sixth? Pull the other - great channel by the way.

 

[theprestige]

The Gitnux site also says this:



Work it out; that indicates that the site gets 56 million visits per day from the US or roughly 1 /6th of the US population. My skeptic sense is tingling.

There's roughly 115 million males between the ages of 15 and 70 in the US. If it's just them we're talking about, roughly half of them are visiting the Hub once a day. That seems like a reasonable ballpark to me, given what I know of male sexuality and the commoditization of porn-over-IP.

But I don't think it follows from this statistic, that all these Hub visitors are somehow complicit in the nonconsensual porn production pipeline, or are part of a "rape culture".

 

[Brainster]

Do you find it hard to believe 1/6 of the US watches porn? Does that number also account for multiple visits to the site from the same source?

Every day? Also the site mentions that the average visit is 10 minutes or so, which sounds like the time needed for porn to have its desired effect. Yes, there may be multiple visits from the same source.

 

[dirtywick]

people watch pornhub all over the world

 

[dirtywick]

But I don't think it follows from this statistic, that all these Hub visitors are somehow complicit in the nonconsensual porn production pipeline, or are part of a "rape culture".

a lot of porn sites don't really allow that kind of stuff on their sites anyway, specifically violent or underage stuff. maybe it's uploaded on secret tags or whatever but i'd challenge you to find a rape video. millions of people aren't seeing that stuff, only people that know where to find it.

-edit-

i reread that, i don't mean challenge you specifically to find a rape video. i'm saying they're pretty hard to find if they're on those sites. the millions of people in the dark on that aren't watching those videos.

 

[lionking]

The problem with the OP is that pornhub was exposed as a publisher of rape videos some years ago and has changed its mode of operation. Viewing figures from 2019 are probably far from accurate now and there is no evidence it is showing underage porn.

https://fightthenewdrug.org/whats-going-on-with-pornhub-timeline-of-events/

“Pornhub announces significant changes in security measures to their platform including only allowing videos uploaded by verified users, disallowing video downloads, and assembling a larger moderation team.
December 10th, 2020: Mastercard, Visa, and Discover announce they have suspended their payment processing services on Pornhub’s site just days after the New York Times reported that the platform included videos of child abuse and rape.
December 14th, 2020: Pornhub removes from the site over 10 million uploaded videos from unverified users.”

The OP may have a point, but porn is not always violent exploitation and pornhub, at least, seems to have changed its poor behaviour.

 

[theprestige]

Overstating the Hub's role in distributing this content is one problem with the OP.

The major objection I have to the OP is still the basic premise of it: That rape culture exists everywhere the Hub can be accessed, because it's possible to find some content on there is alleged to be nonconsensual. That's not how culture works.

 

[Orphia Nay]

I’d say that Melbourne in the 80s was a rape culture.

Or, specifically Melbourne universities and band/club culture.

No, I don't want to talk about my experience.

What I want to know is when, if ever, we’ll have a culpability type of #metoo movement in which perpetrators say sorry for when they had sex with someone who was saying no (otherwise known as rape now).

 

[theprestige]

I’d say that Melbourne in the 80s was a rape culture.

Or, specifically Melbourne universities and band/club culture.

No, I don't want to talk about my experience.

What I want to know is when, if ever, we’ll have a culpability type of #metoo movement in which perpetrators say sorry for when they had sex with someone who was saying no (otherwise known as rape now).

My understanding is that victims being unwilling to talk about their experiences is a major obstacle to getting any kind of social justice.

So you tell us when, if ever.

 

[Orphia Nay]

My understanding is that victims being unwilling to talk about their experiences is a major obstacle to getting any kind of social justice.

So you tell us when, if ever.

You may be right. But victims shouldn't be expected to automatically open up in hostile environments.