Does Atheism & Education cause Superstition?

[cj.23]

I saw the atheists excellent thread on the "paranormalists" winning, and the lamentable decline in to superstition which I'm sure we all oppose. I have a rather heretical thought, and while perhaps it should live in religion it's actually about "paranormal" beliefs, and their relationship to atheism.

I originally posed a question on Professor Dawkins forum as it is inspired by The Enemies of Reason. I am sure the Professor has better things to do than answer my questions though, (and he didn't) and so I have revised it and asked it here. I think this is probably a better place anyway...


I had been reading The Whys of a Philosophical Scrivener (1983) by noted mathematician, science writer and skeptic Martin Gardner. In 1976 Martin Gardner was a founder member of CSI(COP), which has done a great deal over the years in debunking paranormal claims and fighting the rise of superstition. Many readers of this forum may have enjoyed his Fads & Fallacies In the Name of Science.

In Chapter 3, "Why I am not a Paranormalist" Gardner mounts a blistering attack on superstition. It contains many of the themes touched in The Enemies of Reason, and one curious disagreement.

As always with such manias, causes are multiple: the decline of traditional religious beliefs among the better educated, the resurgence of Protestant Fundamentalism, disenchantment with science for creating a technology that is damaging the environment and building horrendous war weapons, increasingly poor quality of science instruction on all levels of schooling, and many other factors...

I found that first bit fascinating. Now Gardner is not Fundamentalist obviously, he is not a Christian, rejects all special revelation, but remains a theist. Like most scholars he sees Fundamentalism as arising recently (within the last century pretty much) and a bad thing-- but he regards the "decline of traditional religious beliefs among the better educated" as a key factor in the rise of pseudo-science, cults and superstition? It in no way justifies Religious Belief, but it is very interesting as a claim.

OK, so I doubted. Gardner is a theist - he must be biased. What are his sources? Luckily he references them. It is the article Superstitions Old and new by William Sims Bainbridge and Rodney Stark in The Skeptical Inquirer, Volume 4, Summer 1980. That's at least eight years before my collection starts, so I have not read the article, but i am sure a few forum members will have copies? Could they oblige? Gardner says

...reported on their surveys of how beliefs in certain aspects of the current occult mania correlated with religious faith. They found people with no professed religion were the most inclined to believe in ESP and extraterrestrial UFOs. Paranormal cults were strongest in areas where the traditional churches were weakest.
​

Never trusting anyone's opinions I have just been through the Sheep/Goat tests from my 1993 Paranormal Beliefs Survey of attendees at a lecture series in Cheltenham. The test used by the group was an early Sheep/Goat test which measured some religious claims as well as paranormal ones. Later we adopted the 1979 New Australian Sheep/Goat Test my Michael Thalbourne, but this earlier version suited my purposes. There were 83 respondents, and while I have not had time to perform a proper statistical test - the data is on stapled questionnaires, not in electronic format and it's too late to type it all in tonight - there does appear to be a very strong correlation between non-belief in God and belief in UFOs as alien visitors, and between non-belief in Jesus as divine and belief in both ghosts & magic, to give a few examples.

I recall now being once asked asked if many parapsychologists were Christian - and I said none at all that I knew of, they were all atheists. I have just looked at my "psychics" who I sometimes work with on testing - only one identifies as Spiritualist, two as atheist (Atheism is VERY common among Spiritualists following the example of Arthur Findlay - indeed Roll's Campaign For Philosophical Freedom is an atheist organisation which makes Dawkin's look like a vicar) and seven "none"; six more are unclassifiable. Not one professed belief in any "orthodox" faith.

Now i'm sure Richard would regard my Anglicanism as just as much superstitious woo as does say crystal power, so this is a false distinction to him: but the evidence seems to suggest to me that the modern irrationalist supernaturalism is inversely related to traditional (non-fundamentalist) religious beliefs.

I think whoever misquoted G.K. Chesterton was right, even if as is possible Chesterton never actually said it
"when a man stops believing in God he does not believe in nothing: he believes in anything".


Correlation is not causality - and of course the better educated college students are more likely to believe in ghosts etc - http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/060121_paranormal_poll.html
assuming the Skeptical Inquirer is cited correctly!

So perhaps the increase in woo The Atheist laments is just a by product of the decline of traditional religious belief, increased secularism and atheism, and better education? The evidence certainly seems to point that way???

cj x

 

[schlitt]

Without going into to much detail as i am tired and about to go to sleep... i wouldn't outright think this claim is as ridiculous as it sounds. I think people have a want or need to justify their existence in some manner or another.
If its not religion, its something else, that gives false hope and meaning. We like to think we are more than just random, and search for things to prove this to us. (yep, not all, hence why you and I are here )

Also, i think religous beleivers have a tendancy to incorporate other woo beliefs into their religious beliefs. For example if you were to ask one of the many christians i know if they beleive that spiritualists are really speaking to the dead, they would say no.
But what they would say is "They are speaking to Demons, who are pretending to be the dead peoples spirits."
Given this logic, you would get a cross in the "do you beleive in psychics column" of a survey. but a tick in the "do you beleive in demons" column, which would be attributed to religious beleif, not miscalaneous superstitious belief. This very same person, but without the religious belief given the same question, would likely put a tick in the spiritualist column, because they no longer have a religious belief to attribute it to.

 

[tsg]

Atheism doesn't cause superstition. A lack of critical thinking does. Of course some people who reject their religion are going to replace it with something equally kooky. If they didn't arrive at their atheism by rational thought processes, the chances they will are much higher.

I have no facts to support this but I'm willing to bet the people who became atheists, having already dismissed all the other claptrap and found their religion in the same category, are the least likely to feel the need to replace it.

 

[cj.23]

I have no facts to support this but I'm willing to bet the people who became atheists, having already dismissed all the other claptrap and found their religion in the same category, are the least likely to feel the need to replace it.

yet the evidence appears to suggest otherwise?

j x

 

[tsg]

yet the evidence appears to suggest otherwise?

"better educated" != "critical thinking"

 

[Miss Whiplash]

Correlation is not causality - and of course the better educated college students are more likely to believe in ghosts etc - http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/060121_paranormal_poll.html
assuming the Skeptical Inquirer is cited correctly!

Better educated college students are more likely to believe in ghosts at this point in time because ghosts and ghost hunting is a current fad. Look at the stable of stars in GP College Entertainment. Give it a few years and kids will go back to piercing themselves when they realize there are no such things as ghosts.

 

[Apathia]

It's simply that people are natural born believers. Without skill in evaluatiing beliefs in both an intellectual and emotional way, they take up new superstitious beliefs when the traditional ones have fallen by the wayside. It's a lack of critical thinking skills and self-awareness that leaves them vulnerable to silly beliefs, not Atheism.

 

[Cuddles]

So perhaps the increase in woo The Atheist laments is just a by product of the decline of traditional religious belief, increased secularism and atheism, and better education? The evidence certainly seems to point that way???

The evidence says no such thing. A decline in traditional religious belief is in no way the same as a rise in atheism, they are two entirely seperate things. Many, probably most, people seem to have a need to believe in something. Since the traditional chuch going type of belief is in decline, people who would have used to be part of that instead turn to new ageism and other currently popular woo. The atheists are the ones who generally reject all forms of belief, it is the people who only reject some but cling to others that give rise to the modern forms pseudoscientific woo that we see.

 

[IllegalArgument]

It's simply that people are natural born believers. Without skill in evaluatiing beliefs in both an intellectual and emotional way, they take up new superstitious beliefs when the traditional ones have fallen by the wayside. It's a lack of critical thinking skills and self-awareness that leaves them vulnerable to silly beliefs, not Atheism.

I agree, traditional organizied religions repressed certain types of believe, now that their strength is weakened, these beliefs are re-surfing.

Humans are born with some really interesting cognitive biases, for instance we are natural dualists when it comes to our understanding of consciousness.

One slight disagreement with the above comment, atheism without critical thinking skills is little better than theism.

 

[tsg]

One slight disagreement with the above comment, atheism without critical thinking skills is little better than theism.

I agree. That you happen to arrive at the right answer doesn't necessarily make the process valid.

 

[tsg]

I think this:

"when a man stops believing in God he does not believe in nothing: he believes in anything".

can be more accurately stated as "those who can believe anything, will believe anything, including atheism."

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I don't even think that it's a "decline" in religiosity or rise in secularity that corresponds with an increase in non-traditional woo beliefs. I think it's more a mingling of cultures and opportunity.

The US is still one of the most religious (or least secular) of the developed nations*, even though there is also a flourishing of all things woo (from psychics and cults to pseudoscience and quackery).

I'd attribute it more to the smorgasbord of such things available here. There's a real free market when it comes to peddling woo, and in the name of freedom, our government is reluctant to regulate hucksters and conmen. Where else in the world could a Peter Popoff be back in business?

It certainly isn't due to a rise in atheism.

*From an article in the Journal of Religion and Society: "the United States is the only prosperous first world nation to retain rates of religiosity otherwise limited to the second and third worlds".

 

[-Fran-]

smorgasbord

mmmmm... I'm hungry....

 

[cj.23]

It's simply that people are natural born believers. Without skill in evaluatiing beliefs in both an intellectual and emotional way, they take up new superstitious beliefs when the traditional ones have fallen by the wayside. It's a lack of critical thinking skills and self-awareness that leaves them vulnerable to silly beliefs, not Atheism.

Excellent! Well as a persistently broke former TV paranormal type and ghosthunter, does that mean I might finally make some money? I might have to see if I can do a college tour of the US! Anyone want to manage me? Randy Ping is an excellent sceptic ghost guide down in New Orleans, maybe there is some potential for us after all?

Of course one could just argue that higher education causes belief in ghosts because it exposes people to better access to the evidence, and its a rational belief. Based on my experience of undergrads however I doubt they are reading the JSPR, so I think you are probably right!


j x

 

[cj.23]

The evidence says no such thing. A decline in traditional religious belief is in no way the same as a rise in atheism, they are two entirely seperate things. Many, probably most, people seem to have a need to believe in something. Since the traditional chuch going type of belief is in decline, people who would have used to be part of that instead turn to new ageism and other currently popular woo. The atheists are the ones who generally reject all forms of belief, it is the people who only reject some but cling to others that give rise to the modern forms pseudoscientific woo that we see.

Actually the original article I cited was looking at exactly this from Gardner's quote - Atheism and these beliefs. If you have access to the Skeptical Inquirer issue from 1980, please feel free to correct me, but that is what the report he cites says. The connection between decline in instituitionalised religion and atheism is Gardner's not mine, but yes I can see why you query it, quite correctly. However the research he draws upon is as I stated?

cj x

 

[cj.23]

Incidentally I'm not suggesting theism is inherently desirable to reduce woo, or that atheism is irrational - I think atheism is rational (and theism too as it happens) but adherents of both systems, as much as any human, are often irrational. Just to make this clear - I'm not evangelising or being confrontational, just interested.

I see tsg's point completely -- sorry I was in a hurry earlier, so If I sounded off Idid not mean to be! Apologies! What I am not convinced
of is that higher levels of education necessarily reflect increased critical thinking. I suspect many plumbers, electricians and builders have highly developed critical thinking ability - whereas many college lecturers may not have. As to atheism - well the self (and negatively defined, as in not believing in something) group atheists will probably contain a wide variety of positive beliefs. After all many spiritualist are atheists...


Lest i seem to be asking ridiculous questions - these things arose from watching Prof Dawkins show, and applying critical thinking (and a respect for Gardner and the Skeptical Inquirer theretoo.). I like hard questions, as you may have gathered, andfind "common sense" a dangerous guide!

cj x

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

As for educational level: I think you'd see a big difference if you compared certain disciplines to others (hard sciences, for example, as compared to theology or even "American Studies").

Also, how do you define "superstition"? (I assume you don't count belief in God, or the question would be pretty skewed.) When I lived in Latin America, I saw lots of superstition that was associated with conventional religion (going way beyond the big superstitions like intercessory prayer and church rituals).

You're right, though, that atheists come in all varieties, only sharing a lack of belief in any god. I'd be surprised if it correlates with anything else (intelligence or superstitious beliefs). The idea that it somehow causes superstition really doesn't work at all.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

mmmmm... I'm hungry....

How about heaping helping of tarot with astrology sauce, a side of reiki, and wash it down with the homeopathic remedy of your choice?

ETA: Me, I can't swallow that stuff!

 

[-Fran-]

How about heaping helping of tarot with astrology sauce, a side of reiki, and wash it down with the homeopathic remedy of your choice?

ETA: Me, I can't swallow that stuff!

My goodness, that does seem awfully hard to digest. Can you imagine the heartburn? That would require a big dose of Alka Skeptzer

 

[cj.23]

As for educational level: I think you'd see a big difference if you compared certain disciplines to others (hard sciences, for example, as compared to theology or even "American Studies").

Actually I've argued passionately in the past that theology students, in Britain at least show a very high level of critical thinking: after all it's one of the few places where Epistemology is a generally required course! Of course the majority of theology graduates i know are atheist or agnostic - and i'm inherently biased as that was my first degree.

cj x