Documentary about Israel/Palestine

Yoav Shamir, Machssomim / Checkpoint

(an unscripted series of encounters at check points in the West Bank during 2002-2003)
 
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Occupation 101 - To those who accept/back up US Israel politics

I'm not sure which sub-forum this thread belongs to, so I'll put it here as well as Social Issues (mods, please merge where ever you feel is best).

So, just finished watching this very well made disturbing documentary, Occupation 101.

Movie homepage
Youtube version

If you're a person who finds US Israel policy acceptable - please, watch the documentary and tell me how is it possible that you advocate this kind of conduct. Because I really can't even begin to imagine the worldview of someone like that.

I'm not asking in order to argue, just trying to understand. Thanks.
 
I'm not asking in order to argue, just trying to understand. Thanks.

Fine. Explain the beginning to me: it seemingly compares "Holy land" to Ireland, Algeria, India, America (?) and South Africa. What do those countries or areas have in common?

If your answer is going to be "occupation", please cite a definition of occupation that will be able to encompass them all without making weird inclusions (or accept the weird inclusions as they surface without question).

McHrozni
 
Heh, please. Check out the whole doc. Maybe you'll find points concerning the OP (US Israel politics). Thanks.
 
This movie is, needless to say, simply Palestinian propaganda.

Thank you for this, I'll check it out!

ETA: Read it, glad I did. Good critique (although clearly biased). Doesn't change much, though. Occupation 101 still stands (with Relentless) as a great showing of how difficult and unbearable the situation is.
 
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Heh, please. Check out the whole doc. Maybe you'll find points concerning the OP (US Israel politics). Thanks.

It starts out with a blatant red herring at best, a lie at worst. Why would I believe it would be any better later on?

Why would I believe a movie that claims to be a documentary but starts out with a lie? Does it get any better later on? Judging from the other movies in the same genre (Loose Change xyz, Zeitgeist, etc), I already saw all I need to obtain an accurate opinion of the movie.

McHrozni
 
It starts out with a blatant red herring at best, a lie at worst. Why would I believe it would be any better later on?

Why would I believe a movie that claims to be a documentary but starts out with a lie? Does it get any better later on? Judging from the other movies in the same genre (Loose Change xyz, Zeitgeist, etc), I already saw all I need to obtain an accurate opinion of the movie.

McHrozni

Fine. Not my problem, your miss. I for one will pass judgement on any piece only after seeing/feeling/listening through it - at least once. This one is not in the same genre as Zeitgeist. As any cry for help, it is of course mostly one-sided. It has to be! Has it's twists and flaws, sure. But it doesn't change the fact of the miserable living conditions of most Palestinians (still living there) and the fact that this misery is supported by the US.

Sorry, never gonna end up an emotion-deaf cynic.
 
Fine. Not my problem, your miss.

More like my save. I have better things to do with my time. Just about everything qualifies as both more productive and more entertaining at the same time.

This one is not in the same genre as Zeitgeist.

It's a cheap propaganda flick masquerading as a documentary. It's the very same genre.

McHrozni
 
More like my save. I have better things to do with my time. Just about everything qualifies as both more productive and more entertaining at the same time.

But of course you decide what is what for you.

It's a cheap propaganda flick masquerading as a documentary. It's the very same genre.

And you know this because you watched the first 10 seconds? Whatever you label the film as, cheap it isn't. It is one of the most well made docs concerning the subject.
 
This movie is, needless to say, simply Palestinian propaganda.

Would you be so kind as to tell me what parts of the documentary you see as true? Or are you claiming none of what is shown is real? Not Rachel Corrie's death? Not the bulldozing of Palestinian homes from the way of settlements? Not the fact that Israel is in many ways breaking international law and denying the Palestinians their basic human rights? The death tolls are wrong as well? It's all simply propaganda?

I'd like to see your evidence. Because I am not interested in anything else than the truth.

Thanks.
 
Seen the first version of Occupation 101 and the revisions (including this one). It doesn't present counter arguments (or a balance), but rather presses one side of the story without presenting how the conflict could've been averted many times from the mandate period to the present. It ignores the context of the conflicts and from the beginning tries to tie together conflict zones simply by drawing a weak correlation to violence and various uprisings.

The issue I have here is that the groups in power, be it the PLO or Hamas, from secular to Islamists, cannot be correlated to the conflict zones of the past, from Ireland to India to Algeria. PLO and Hamas have done everything in their power to prevent any sort of resolution to this conflict via compromise and concessions. The other conflict zones given as examples all have to do with a foreign power occupying said land as an extension of their empire (ie French and British colonization) and the resulting uprising and claim for independence. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict stems from previous wars between Israel and its Arab neighbors, whereby only two of the Arab countries involved in these wars have signed non-belligerency agreements, and the people displaced during the war (of which only one side has been actively resettled), namely the Palestinians, have not been actively resettled and used as a political and extorsion ploy for billions in humanitarian aid. The 'uprising'/'resistence' are a result of this lack of resolution to this conflict following the 3 major wars. So its a bit backwards to correlate this to other conflict zones.

So all in all, the lack of resolution to this conflict has stemmed, predominantly in my eyes, from a irresponsible PA government, one devoid of corruption on one end, and unmoving Islamist influence on the other, both of which are exploiting their own people for extorting aid from the international community.

This is just to start this off. I would advise though that one doesn't simply rely on an imbalanced sensationalist documentary that presents the story without the other without other material. I've read many of the counter arguments, even from the more extreme fringes of both the right and left. I advise you to do the same.
 
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Here's a concise response to the Occupation 101 documentary which addresses some of the specific issues with this documentary and how in all meanings of the word, propaganda, in presenting one side with misrepresenations, omissions, and in several cases, fabrications of historical events:

Anti-Israel Propaganda Shown to Arabic Students?
 
And you know this because you watched the first 10 seconds? Whatever you label the film as, cheap it isn't. It is one of the most well made docs concerning the subject.

No, I watched the first four minutes. They were incredibly cheap pieces of propaganda, which also pretty much preclude from the movie being branded as a documentary.

McHrozni
 

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