Do You Support the Troops?

[Tony]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1029874-1,00.html ...full article

Only a few months after Army Specialist Darrell Anderson received a Purple Heart last summer for his service in Iraq, his heart wasn't in it anymore. By Christmas, while on leave at his parents' home in Lexington, Ky., Anderson, 22, was dead set against the war. Haunted by memories of civilian casualties, he had become a nervous wreck. So early last month, a few days before he was due to return to his unit's base in Germany and prepare for a redeployment to Iraq later this year, Anderson rented a car and drove to Toronto. Since arriving, Anderson has joined several like-minded U.S. soldiers fighting an uphill battle to gain refugee status in Canada. "I joined the Army to get money and defend my country, not to kill innocent people and fight for a war that is unjust," says Anderson, who earned his medal for the minor injuries he sustained April 11, when a homemade explosive device sprayed shrapnel all over his armored vehicle during a patrol in Baghdad.

Do you support the troops? Or is your support only conditional if they act in ways with which you agree?

 

[American]

I support the mission first, as they do, and themselves second.

 

[Tony]

I take that as a no, you do not support the troops

 

[Upchurch]

Do you support the troops? Or is your support only conditional if they act in ways with which you agree?

I believe these soldiers are obligated to fulfill the duty they signed on for, but I also respect a person who has enough character to stand by their principles despite the consequences.

Probably the more honorable course of action would have been if these soldiers refused to return to combat but stayed in the US to face the consequences. Running to Canada makes it less about doing the right thing and more about getting out of a dangerous situation.

 

[Tony]

Re: Re: Do You Support the Troops?

Running to Canada makes it less about doing the right thing and more about getting out of a dangerous situation.

I struggle to understand why you think that's bad. Most people in their right mind would get out of a dangerous situation they wouldn't want to be in.

 

[Dan Beaird]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1029874-1,00.html ...full article

Do you support the troops? Or is your support only conditional if hey act in ways with which you agree?

It's my understanding that there's less than 20 American servicemembers in Canada seeking protection. I would guess that they will get a poorer response than the earlier draft dodgers received. The major difference is that everyone in the U.S. military today volunteered for their service with full knowledge of the conditions of the service. There is even a process within the military for gaining conscientious objector status, so fleeing to Canada isn't the same political statement it was in 1970.

Your question is rather charged. Do I support the troops? Well I pay my taxes. I don't have a sticker on my car and I don't scream "USA USA USA". In some people's mind that makes me someone who doesn't support the troops at all. Do I support this particular person who ran away from his obligations and his duty: definitely not. If he were a real hero he would have stayed and accepted the consequences of his actions and not run away from them.

 

[corplinx]

I fully support our deserters in uniform who run to canada and cite psychological grief which they didn't seek counseling for.


Let's not try their cases on this forum. Perhaps one man is a true civilly disobedient objector and the next is a weasal. However, civil disobedience states that you accept the punishment for your disobedience. These men are deserters who have abadoned their fellow troops.

 

[RussDill]

Do you support the troops? Or is your support only conditional if they act in ways with which you agree?

I will always support the troops as a unit, even if troops are accussed of actions, I will stand behind them through their military trial. However, if they are found guilty for their actions, purge them from the military and lock them up. I also will not support any troops attempting to cover up the actions of another.

Anyway, if this guy doesn't want to shoot any civilians, then all he has to do is not target civilians. I'm not sure what his problem is. Anyway, if he wants to take a non-combat role, I'm sure his superiors could arrange that, instead though, he'll go to prison.

[Edited to add: I also support the troops in my work, which I take great pride in]

 

[corplinx]

If I got drafted for vietnam, you would find me the next week in French Canada doing mime and answering to the name Pierre.

These guys didn't get drafted. They're volunteers. They would rather be canadian heroes than american dishonorably discharged schmoes.

 

[hgc]

Re: Re: Do You Support the Troops?

... Anyway, if he wants to take a non-combat role, I'm sure his superiors could arrange that, instead though, he'll go to prison.

Oh, it's that easy? 'Scuse me General, I don't want to get shot at, so can you put me in the mess corps? Somehow, I don't think that works even in the volunteer army (after you're already in).

 

[Tmy]

I support thew troops. I mean I never even wanted them to go. Didnt think it was worth it.

At the same time Im not going to be some troop groupie that OKs anything they do. Whether it be desertion, murder, or any other crime.

 

[IIRichard]

A little personal history. I was drafted in 1967, but I beat it by enlisting, fully expecting to be sent to 'Nam but I wasn't.

My Grandfather served in the Spanish American War, father, WWII. My son, a Marine, served in Iraq. I expect that he killed a number of people not in uniform. He told me his squad blew away a civilian car that would not stop for a roadblock. He (probably, not confirmed) killed several people who were trying to kill him. Am I proud of him. Yes.

Do I support the troops? Abu Gharhb (sp), no, a disgrace to the uniform. Note these were not combat troops but a garrison unit. Do I respect any man or woman or puts on the uniform? Unequivocal Yes. Do I pity some poor bloke who can't take his obligations seriously and throws the uniform away, yes. Do I respect him, no.

I don't respect fathers who don't pay child support either or mothers that ignore their children.

The question is too simple. This is like asking, "is Ted Kennedy patriotic." There are dumb questions.

 

[Upchurch]

Re: Re: Re: Do You Support the Troops?

I struggle to understand why you think that's bad. Most people in their right mind would get out of a dangerous situation they wouldn't want to be in.

Being a soldier means being in dangerous situations. If their point is not being in dangerous situations, they should not have become soldiers and are merely dodging the remainder of the duty they signed up for. If, however, their point is that this is an unjust war, as Darrell Anderson claims in the article, then their primary concern should not be about avoiding dangerous situations but refusing to obey unjust orders.

They're in trouble with the military either way. Running to avoid prosecution indicates that they acknowledge that they are doing something wrong rather than saying that their superiors are ordering them to do something wrong.

In short, I think fleeing to Canada is bad because it undercuts their position. (if it is, in fact, that they don't want to "kill innocent people and fight for a war that is unjust".)

 

[RussDill]

Re: Re: Re: Do You Support the Troops?

Oh, it's that easy? 'Scuse me General, I don't want to get shot at, so can you put me in the mess corps? Somehow, I don't think that works even in the volunteer army (after you're already in).

Generally, with this type of person, you don't want him covering you anyway.

 

[peptoabysmal]

Re: Re: Do You Support the Troops?

I
Anyway, if this guy doesn't want to shoot any civilians, then all he has to do is not target civilians.

You may have hit the nail on the head here. Did the guy go nuts in battle and start spraying bullets everywhere? Who knows?

The part of this story I'm having difficulty swallowing is that he's a deserter, and that's his choice and he will have to live with the consequences; but now he's trying to make it into some kind of anti-war statement or "war resisters"?

 

[Skeptic]

Only a few months after Army Specialist Darrell Anderson received a Purple Heart last summer for his service in Iraq, his heart wasn't in it anymore. By Christmas, while on leave at his parents' home in Lexington, Ky., Anderson, 22, was dead set against the war.

Sounds a bit like a certain recent presidential candidate. Of course, Anderson should have done the honorable thing: instead of going to Canada, he should have lied to Congress about nonexistent "war crimes" he "witnessed", or perhaps meet with Ba'athists in France for "peace talks"...

 

[Ian Osborne]

Sounds a bit like a certain recent presidential candidate. Of course, Anderson should have done the honorable thing: instead of going to Canada, he should have lied to Congress about nonexistent "war crimes" he "witnessed", or perhaps meet with Ba'athists in France for "peace talks"...

Or joined the National Guard and pretended to defend Alabama like the other candidate

 

[Ladewig]

I have a pretty steep definition of support.

Civilians who pray for soldiers, who put stickers on cars, and who post things on the internet are not really supporting our troops. Civilians who send cards, letters or packages; who give money to parents trying to buy personal body armor; or who donate airmiles to programs that allow soldiers on leave to get all the way home are actually supporting the troops.

 

[American]

I take that as a no, you do not support the troops

They themselves support the mission ahead of their own lives, or they shouldn't be there. Further, they don't need my support, rather they need only their own testicles to fight and win a war.

Do you seriously expect them to fall in love with you for supporting them?

Do you think they're going to feel heartbroken that Tony doesn't want them to be there?

 

[hgc]

They themselves support the mission ahead of their own lives, or they shouldn't be there. Further, they don't need my support, rather they need only their own testicles to fight and win a war.

...

LOL. Yes, that's how many of them seem to feel about it too. Turns out they don't have any choice (you do have some notion of how the military controls the lives of its soldiers, right?). Of course, if you're referring to the decision to join up, that means that at the time of joining the army, you have to agree that any possible mission your president will devise, you must "support," that is, have the testicular fortitude (guns don't matter much) to fight and win.

Damn, American, your posts are packed with so much stupidity that it's hard to craft a concise reply. You're like anti-poet!