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Do some Animals, aside from Humans, think?

Undesired Walrus

Penultimate Amazing
Undesired Walrus
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Apr 10, 2007
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I understand that there is a Gorrilla somewhere that can actually express itself using sign language, which is quite extraordinary in my book.

I just wonder, can the more intelligent animals, like Apes and Dolphins actually think? I think I heard that Dolphins actually have their own language, or something like that. Seeing how Chimps can now prove themselves to have better memory than Humans, presumably there is some process going on in their minds that is beyond 'food ug. Mate ug ug.'
 
I'm sure that even 'lesser' animals, such as dogs, think. However, given an ingrained prejudice toward the 'specialness' of humans, and lacking better communication, it's going to be hard to ever provide conclusive proof for some people...
 
The Gorilla that can talk in sign language was an unintentional hoax.
The gorillas handlers would misinterpret random gestures as a word in sign language. Outside testing with deaf people (who only "spoke" in sign language) confirmed that the gorilla only had a limited vocabulary and would use some of that vocabulary randomly (gibberish).
 
I do however believe that animals can think in much the same manner that I myself do. It is the quality of those thoughts that are the question.
 
Certainly animals display many of the same behaviours as humans do and since we are biologically so closely related I don't think it is step too far to consider that those behaviours occur for the same reasons as they do in humans.

Now that of course doesn't mean they experience a "me" in exactly the same way as I do but certainly I would be suprised if the animals with more similar brain structures to humans do not at least share some of that "me" expereience.

(Of course the above is really an argument from lack-of-incredulity. :))
 
If they were capable of pondering semantic conundrums like: what does it mean to "think"? or philosophical conundrums like: is that a semantic conundrum, or a philosophical one? or grammatical conundrums like: what is the proper plural form of "conundrum"?, then my answer would be: yes, definitely; but I'm not sure what good it does them to do any of that.

But obviously, they can't, so my answer is: sure... sorta.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
I understand that there is a Gorrilla somewhere that can actually express itself using sign language, which is quite extraordinary in my book.

I just wonder, can the more intelligent animals, like Apes and Dolphins actually think? I think I heard that Dolphins actually have their own language, or something like that. Seeing how Chimps can now prove themselves to have better memory than Humans, presumably there is some process going on in their minds that is beyond 'food ug. Mate ug ug.'
Click to expand...

Maybe you need to define thought, verbal cognition?
 
Scientific American from last April (IIRC) had an article about crows. In one experiment crows were observed solving a puzzle to obtain food by staring at the situation for a few moments then implementing the correct solution (which required a series of coordinated moves) without any trial and error.

A certain species of fish is subject to fungus growing in their mouths. Another species of fish eats the fungus. If there is a cleaner fish in the area the fish will line up and open their mouths to be "serviced". But if a particular cleaner fish takes a bite of the fish's mouth along with the fungus, that fish will no longer open its mouth for that particular cleaner fish. Quite amazing really - the fish can identify individuals of the other species and can remember which ones bite.

So, the answer is "Yes"
 
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I agree that animals think. I don't use their inability to communicate with us as a valid measure of intelligence or thought.
 
Interesting that this thread just came up. Just yesterday, I finished Next, by Michael Crichton. It's about transgenetic animals.


ETA: Or is it "transgenic"? It may be. Gotta check.
 
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I don't think they have an internal monologue on the go :)

I do think they likely share much the same thinking as we do, when we are not using an internal monologue to think.
 
I'm pretty sure my, "Moses" can think.......(my dog)

He knows when I say, "You wanna go for a walk"?

and he can differentiate that from, "Do you wanna go to work"?

that being said, He has No Freakin Idea, that he will die in 8 more years.......

But I will love him every year till he does, unless I Jump first......

then it's all on the Moses.

p.s. sure they think
 
NobbyNobbs said:
Interesting that this thread just came up. Just yesterday, I finished Next, by Michael Crichton. It's about transgenetic animals.


ETA: Or is it "transgenic"? It may be. Gotta check.
Click to expand...



It's interesting you said that. I was on the other hand remembering another book by Michael Cricthon where he talks a lot about the subject: Congo.
 
DouglasL said:
The Gorilla that can talk in sign language was an unintentional hoax.
The gorillas handlers would misinterpret random gestures as a word in sign language. Outside testing with deaf people (who only "spoke" in sign language) confirmed that the gorilla only had a limited vocabulary and would use some of that vocabulary randomly (gibberish).
Click to expand...

Animals can definitely have a vocabulary. Parots, for example, are definitely "speaking", some with impressively large vocabularies. But what they don't seem to be able to do is form a grammar. Individual words can mean things to them, and even strings of words can mean things, but as a set phrase which acts like one big word. The human capacity for grammar seems to be unique.
 
We have almost no knowledge of what takes place in the largest brains on earth.
We have immense data on how to hunt them and render them down for oil.

Kind of shameful, really.
 
Wikipedia has a pretty good summary of the research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_ape_language

There are many different studies with different kinds of primates, and some are pretty compelling, but it seems that linguists are pretty skeptical of all of it. The stumbling block is that there is no evidence of actual "syntax", in the way the natural languages use it. It certainly seems that "communication" is taking place however.

At least two elements are necessary for "natural language" syntax: invention (of new words), and recursion, or embedding.

There are some pretty remarkable parrot acts also, but this is more along the lines of the "counting horse", I would think.
 
Living things with a sensory arrangement less than five don't possess cognition.
 
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Well it seems that many people agree that animals think. Frankly I think that is what my ducks must do most of the time. They just sit there silently and do nothing.

[OT]
What we hear:

"Woof woof bark woof woof yelp woof"

"Woof yelp bark woof woof woof"

What they hear:

"No no no, you see it's because we act in this submissive fashion that the humans think that they own us when in fact it is clearly the other way around"

"However you have to remember that there are humans that have shown themselves to be dominant over their dog."

(I like The Far Side)
 
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