Deregualtion, no regulation meme

[Magyar]

Yet another nail in the coffin of the right wing loon machine meme about how if we only removed the regulations that hinder the magical free market everything will be alright.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/03/snake-oil-supplements_n_6602940.html?utm_hp_ref=business

"GNC-brand bottles of St. John's wort, touted as a cure for depression, held rice, garlic and a tropical houseplant, but not a trace of the herb."

"In fact, DNA testing on hundreds of bottles of store-brand herbal supplements sold as treatments for everything from memory loss to prostate trouble found that four out of five contained none of the herbs on the label."


So ONCE again, we are shown that the right and libertarian teatards are clueless and in fact there is NO such thing as "over regulation"! (note -poorly written or administered regulation are a different subject and the shifting of that goal post is often used by the right to muddy the waters) There is ALWAYS a reason why regulations are created! And the reason - powerful, multi billion dollar companies like scum mart will use any tactic to rip the consumer off as much as possible! It's not bad enough that they're taking advantage of the uneducated who buy into the whole herbal remedy crap - fine there is enough info out there that buyers should know better. But to make a few extra pennies, they cant even bother to put the useless herb they promised to sell you and fill the bottles with what - grass clippings from the front lawn?.

 

[Tony Stark]

One would have thought that meme would have disappeared after 2008. But no, that's how irrational conservatives are.

 

[Francesca R]

in fact there is NO such thing as "over regulation"!

Ooh, utter gibberish alert!

 

[Tony Stark]

Ooh, utter gibberish alert!

I'll even agree that over regulation is possible. But at the same time under regulation is the problem we face, especially with regard to Wall Street.

 

[Francesca R]

Glad you agree.

The OP can of course try to prove the gibberish.

 

[DavidJames]

Glad you agree.

The OP can of course try to prove the gibberish.

One of the frustrating things of this forum is people (I'm often guilty as well) make a point, comment with evidence, then ramble on with hyperbole.

What that allows is for people, often the target audience, to avoid the comment with evidence and focus on the hyperbole.

Would you care to comment on the 2nd 3rd and 4th sentences.

 

[xjx388]

I don't think we need more regulation. We need to enforce the regulation against false advertising that already exists. If they say they are selling you one particular ineffective herb, then by golly, that's the herb that should be in the bottle.

I have no problem with them selling ineffective herbs, though.

 

[Donal]

I have a problem with them saying it is medicine with absolutely no proof to support that claim.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I don't think we need more regulation. We need to enforce the regulation against false advertising that already exists. If they say they are selling you one particular ineffective herb, then by golly, that's the herb that should be in the bottle.

I have no problem with them selling ineffective herbs, though.

So what regulatory agency should be charged with investigating and verifying that the herb claimed is what is in each and every bottle of said herbs? Or is this, if you get caught you will be in trouble, but no one is looking so you won't get caught? And of course getting caught costs a pittance compared to the money you make anyway so it is just a cost of doing business.

So how onerous do the fees need to be that the risk of them outweighs the reward of just putting some cheap crap in there?

 

[surrogate]

So what regulatory agency should be charged with investigating and verifying that the herb claimed is what is in each and every bottle of said herbs? Or is this, if you get caught you will be in trouble, but no one is looking so you won't get caught? And of course getting caught costs a pittance compared to the money you make anyway so it is just a cost of doing business.

So how onerous do the fees need to be that the risk of them outweighs the reward of just putting some cheap crap in there?

Obviously, the consumer should be testing the herbs at their fully equipped in home laboratory.

 

[lobosrul]

So what regulatory agency should be charged with investigating and verifying that the herb claimed is what is in each and every bottle of said herbs? Or is this, if you get caught you will be in trouble, but no one is looking so you won't get caught? And of course getting caught costs a pittance compared to the money you make anyway so it is just a cost of doing business.

So how onerous do the fees need to be that the risk of them outweighs the reward of just putting some cheap crap in there?

The FDA should be the agency to test anything marketed for ingestion by humans, so long as its sold across state lines (in other words, if its a very small business it should be handled by local authorities). I know it doesn't, but it should be tasked with doing so. As for punishment: for purposely misrepresenting what you're selling, a refund to everyone who bought it, and its on you to prove a claimant didn't buy it. Anyone involved in the decision to lie about ingredients that is part of a corporation shall also be held personally liable.

And on no such thing as over-regulation... come on. What if the regulation was every single bottle of a supplement must have an inspector open it and test one tablet, thereby quintupling the price. That wouldn't be over-regulation?

 

[xjx388]

So what regulatory agency should be charged with investigating and verifying that the herb claimed is what is in each and every bottle of said herbs?

Currently it's the FDA and I see no reason to change this now. But the "agency" that caught this was actually a private entity. Additionally, a private entity named USP offers verification services and, in the rare event I ever want to try a supplement, I always look for the USP mark. At least I know that the supplement in question is what it says it is.

Or is this, if you get caught you will be in trouble, but no one is looking so you won't get caught? And of course getting caught costs a pittance compared to the money you make anyway so it is just a cost of doing business.

But this is true in any market. Is anyone routinely testing the claims of "organic" or "Pasture raised," etc? Since there isn't really a difference in an organic pasture raised egg and a normal egg, what would they even look for? And if it turns out that Dairy X isn't really being "organic," what kind of penalty would there be?

So how onerous do the fees need to be that the risk of them outweighs the reward of just putting some cheap crap in there?

I think if a manufacturer is caught false advertising, there should be pretty severe penalties and not just a slap on the wrist. It should be a significant enough penalty as to scare away fraudsters and encourage the legitimate ones to be careful about their manufacturing processes.

 

[epepke]

So what regulatory agency should be charged with investigating and verifying that the herb claimed is what is in each and every bottle of said herbs?

The Food and Drug administration, but they don't get to do that because Senator Orrin Hatch, a Republican, introduced the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994.

So how onerous do the fees need to be that the risk of them outweighs the reward of just putting some cheap crap in there?

Absolutely hideous. I can buy a bottle of aspirin at the dollar store containing more than a hundred tablets, and all of them will contain 325 mg of aspirin. For a dollar. So the onerous burden must be huge and absolutely guaranteed to wreck the economy.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Yet another nail in the coffin of the right wing loon machine meme about how if we only removed the regulations that hinder the magical free market...

You lost all credibility when you referred to the free market as "magical".

 

[Emily's Cat]

Additionally, a private entity named USP offers verification services and, in the rare event I ever want to try a supplement, I always look for the USP mark.

Just in case anyone is interested in USP...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Pharmacopeia

They're actually a pretty useful organization, that most people don't even know exists.

 

[The Big Dog]

The Food and Drug administration, but they don't get to do that because Senator Orrin Hatch, a Republican, introduced the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994.

.

He sign it too?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Currently it's the FDA and I see no reason to change this now. But the "agency" that caught this was actually a private entity. Additionally, a private entity named USP offers verification services and, in the rare event I ever want to try a supplement, I always look for the USP mark. At least I know that the supplement in question is what it says it is.But this is true in any market. Is anyone routinely testing the claims of "organic" or "Pasture raised," etc? Since there isn't really a difference in an organic pasture raised egg and a normal egg, what would they even look for? And if it turns out that Dairy X isn't really being "organic," what kind of penalty would there be?

But the FDA isn't the agency who enforces the laws you are citing, but the FTC. So we need to give the FDA much broader regulatory control over much larger sections of the retail world then.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The Food and Drug administration, but they don't get to do that because Senator Orrin Hatch, a Republican, introduced the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994.

That is admittedly a bipartisan bill, the supplement industry has senators from both parties in their pocket.

 

[BobTheCoward]

And they are disputing the accuracy of the tests. I will wait and see if there is any truth in this.

 

[eeyore1954]

One of the frustrating things of this forum is people (I'm often guilty as well) make a point, comment with evidence, then ramble on with hyperbole.

What that allows is for people, often the target audience, to avoid the comment with evidence and focus on the hyperbole.

Would you care to comment on the 2nd 3rd and 4th sentences.

It is hard to tell where the sentences start and end but

There is ALWAYS a reason why regulations are created!

This is true. Usually the reason is good. But the reason is not always what the next sentence says.

And the reason - powerful, multi billion dollar companies like scum mart will use any tactic to rip the consumer off as much as possible!

This is hyperbole again and I do not believe it to be true.
Scum mart also brings good prices (not the best so I usually shop elsewhere) which helps the consumer.
I believe the typical business like scum mart is interested in satisfying and not ripping off their consumers. That is how they make money. Of course like everywhere there are good and bad employees at a place like @#$% mart and I believe it is possible someone knew about this. It is also possible either they did not know or maybe the claim is not true like people in the article claim.

It's not bad enough that they're taking advantage of the uneducated who buy into the whole herbal remedy crap - fine there is enough info out there that buyers should know better.

I know educated people who buy into the herbal remedy crap and swear buy the results. If they want to buy it and if it is only a placebo but works for them fine.

But to make a few extra pennies, they cant even bother to put the useless herb they promised to sell you and fill the bottles with what - grass clippings from the front lawn?.

I do believe manufacturers should be liable for not providing what they claim. In my opinion this is not over regulation.
You will be hard pressed to find more than a smattering of politicians who believe in the "no regulation meme" .

Just as there are many good and important regulations there is also most certainly a thing such as over regulation and I have felt it in the company where I work.