Depleted uranium birth defects

[DNA Thief]

A friend of mine posted a link to a music video on Facebook - Hand On Your Gun by Lowkey. There's a segment at the end that shows a deformed infant, and in the comments was a suggestion that it was a depleted uranium birth defect.

I hadn't heard of this before, so I tried to do a bit of research. It seems I don't know the right places to go searching - wikipedia seems a bit out of date, and I was surprised that nothing relevant could be found through NEJM.

Wikipedia's page on depleted uranium mentions a few studies suggesting no effect, so I'm left wondering if it's a scam or scare tactic or such.

Any pointers on where I could find the most recent & reliable information?

 

[JJM 777]

A Google search with "depleted uranium birth defect" gives lotsa pages.

I would believe that the claims are correct, and the US Army knows it, but since when was the US Army on the side of truth when truth is contrary to its military interests?

 

[DNA Thief]

That was my second port of call, right after "depleted uranium babies". I thought it would be prudent to check references after finding conflicting information. I did miss the ehjournal link though, which looks like what I wanted. My only concern - Is it a reputable site?

I would think the claims are correct too, I'm just trying to play devil's advocate to myself to improve my skeptical 'chops' a little.

As for the US Army, I'm sure they'd deny it, but surely there's been independent research run?

 

[PixyMisa]

It's a toxic heavy metal. Don't eat it.

 

[Aepervius]

I have found one reference in german on an anti-nuclear web site, and in this they experiment on embryo with DU for teratogenetic effects on rats, frogs etc...

Sadly I do not seem to have the full reference :
D.P. Arfsten et al. (rats implented with the equivalent for a human of 220g of DU so it is a very high dosis)
S. Barillet et al. (zebra fish)
S. Bourrachot et al. (same)
S.E. Mitchell et al. (frogs embryo)

http://www.ippnw.de/commonFiles/pdfs/Atomwaffen/ICBUW_Appendix_Deutsch.pdf

Anyway they don't give full reference so it hard for me to check that around.


You can try "teratogenetic effect depleted uranium" or "teratogenetic effect heavy metal" maybe you'll have better luck and find something with reference.

 

[geni]

It's very political. Depleted uranium sounds scary so the pro-peace mob try to highlight it's use as part of their "war is bad" campain. Equaly the pro-war mob tend to try and downplay any possibility of problems.

The few fairly safe facts are:

The stuff isn't very radioactive
The stuff is a heavy metal with the usual toxicty issues
When a DU round hits something hard like tank armour bits of it will catch fire resulting in a fine uranium powerder.

Beyond that good luck.

 

[Cuddles]

It's a toxic heavy metal. Don't eat it.

This. Depleted uranium is popular with anti-nuclear types because people tend to associate uranium with radioactivity and nuclear weapons, but in reality the dangers are entirely down to it being a heavy metal. It's hardly surprising that it would have health issues - just look at the efforts we've made to get rid of lead from various things that get inhaled and/or eaten.

The real question isn't whether it can be harmful, but whether the alternatives are any better. The main contender is tungsten/cobalt/nickel alloys, which are also toxic and may actually be significantly worse than uranium. Given that banning armour piercing weapons entirely isn't really an option, DU isn't necessarily a bad choice.

 

[catsmate]

This. Depleted uranium is popular with anti-nuclear types because people tend to associate uranium with radioactivity and nuclear weapons, but in reality the dangers are entirely down to it being a heavy metal. It's hardly surprising that it would have health issues - just look at the efforts we've made to get rid of lead from various things that get inhaled and/or eaten.

The real question isn't whether it can be harmful, but whether the alternatives are any better. The main contender is tungsten/cobalt/nickel alloys, which are also toxic and may actually be significantly worse than uranium. Given that banning armour piercing weapons entirely isn't really an option, DU isn't necessarily a bad choice.

Perhaps a study comparing rates of birth defects with, say, those who wore uranium containing dentures?

 

[Tricky]

This. Depleted uranium is popular with anti-nuclear types because people tend to associate uranium with radioactivity and nuclear weapons, but in reality the dangers are entirely down to it being a heavy metal. It's hardly surprising that it would have health issues - just look at the efforts we've made to get rid of lead from various things that get inhaled and/or eaten.

The real question isn't whether it can be harmful, but whether the alternatives are any better. The main contender is tungsten/cobalt/nickel alloys, which are also toxic and may actually be significantly worse than uranium. Given that banning armour piercing weapons entirely isn't really an option, DU isn't necessarily a bad choice.

Do you mean that the radioactivity is not an issue at all? I realize it's "depleted", but I'd be surprised if there aren't at least some negative effects from the radiation. Perhaps they are overwhelmed by the toxicity issues, but still...

 

[Segnosaur]

Do you mean that the radioactivity is not an issue at all? I realize it's "depleted", but I'd be surprised if there aren't at least some negative effects from the radiation. Perhaps they are overwhelmed by the toxicity issues, but still...

Well, there are a couple of things to note:

- Depleted Uranium is primarily an Alpha emitter. Alpha particles have very low penetrative power (i.e. unlikely to penetrated clothing/skin.) Some gamma radiation can be emitted but in very small amounts
- There is significant uranium naturally occurring in the soil. Given the fact that it's so common (and depleted uranium will be less radioactive than natural uranium) it might be difficult to separate the effects of DU from natural radiation effects caused by uranium naturally found in soil

 

[uruk]

Jim Sanborn is an artist who created autoradiographs of depleted uranium projectiles.

http://jimsanborn.net/#photo (Scroll down to the "The Penetrating Radiation Series" section.)

The images are created by the radiation from the projectiles exposing the film.
Don't know how many RADs it takes to expose the film. Not much I would suppose.

"Depleted" seems to be a matter of interpretation. DU may be primarily an alpha emitter but if aerosolized DU is inhaled, the protection of clothes may be moot.

DU has the double whammy of heavy metal toxicity and low level radiation if introduced into the body.

 

[shadron]

DU has such a long half-life (roughly the same as the age of the sun/Earth) that it's radiation intensity is less than that of raw well water, and is not easily measurably different from that of lead. That it might cause birth defects is nearly impossible, given all the sources of radioactivity in normal environments that one could never know whether your baby's problem should be blamed on an exploded shell or the stream you drank out of the last time you were fishing; all alpha radioactivity looks the same once it gets out of the nucleus.

 

[uruk]

I think one of the issues is that not all DU ordenance is as "depleted" as being claimed.
The radiation of some ordenance is quite a bit higher than the background radiation.

 

[Segnosaur]

"Depleted" seems to be a matter of interpretation. DU may be primarily an alpha emitter but if aerosolized DU is inhaled, the protection of clothes may be moot.

True. However, the people most likely to be exposed to aerosolized DU are people that are (for example) in vehicles/buildings that have just been hit by DU shells. Those people probably have a lot more to worry about than "will this give me long-term radiation damage". I suspect their chief concern will be more along the lines of "Aaaarrrrrhhhh!"

 

[fuelair]

Jim Sanborn is an artist who created autoradiographs of depleted uranium projectiles.

http://jimsanborn.net/#photo (Scroll down to the "The Penetrating Radiation Series" section.)

The images are created by the radiation from the projectiles exposing the film.
Don't know how many RADs it takes to expose the film. Not much I would suppose.

"Depleted" seems to be a matter of interpretation. DU may be primarily an alpha emitter but if aerosolized DU is inhaled, the protection of clothes may be moot.

DU has the double whammy of heavy metal toxicity and low level radiation if introduced into the body.

Unaerosolized, the heavy metal effect will pretty much kill you before your body much notices the radiation - but, yes, the alphas being in lungs/stomach could eventually affect you also. As noted, though, for toxic stuff unaerosoled DPU is much safer than many alternatives and is very effective at ruining a tanker's quality of life in a hurry..

I was also told by a reliable source several years ago that they were working on a plastic/ceramic material that could be even more effective and no radiation problem at al. Unfortunately he was very ill at the time - and I have not seen him since.

 

[uruk]

True. However, the people most likely to be exposed to aerosolized DU are people that are (for example) in vehicles/buildings that have just been hit by DU shells. Those people probably have a lot more to worry about than "will this give me long-term radiation damage". I suspect their chief concern will be more along the lines of "Aaaarrrrrhhhh!"

People who machine and manufacture DU ordinances are also exposed to aerosolized DU.
I would imagine that they use filter masks though.

Anybody down wind of an DU impact are also supceptable. But then anybody that close to an impact would probably be on the enemy side of the lines.

Also DU is approved to be used in training, which would mean that our soldiers who train with DU may also be exposed.

Look here for other proposed uses of DU: http://www.mfgsci.com/
(Scroll down to "Products from Deplete Uranium")

Another concern is that DU is pyrophoric, which means that DU will ignite when sufficiently heated: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrophoricity

Yet another way for DU to be come aerosolized.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Do you mean that the radioactivity is not an issue at all? I realize it's "depleted", but I'd be surprised if there aren't at least some negative effects from the radiation. Perhaps they are overwhelmed by the toxicity issues, but still...

Well are granite counter tops a serious radiological hazard? It is a bit more than that, but way less than living on top of granite.

 

[WhatRoughBeast]

I think one of the issues is that not all DU ordenance is as "depleted" as being claimed.

Conceivable, but I do hope you realise that the depletion process is the flip side of the enrichment process for reactor/weapons uranium. Any reduction in depletion means that the good stuff isn't quite as good as it would otherwise be. There may be economic reasons for not extracting as much U235 as possible. Anyone with expertise want to weigh in?

 

[DNA Thief]

So, from what I can follow, radioactivity isn't the problem, heavy metal toxicity is. That would result in the same symptoms as lead poisoning?

I did notice this line on WP (with no reference) - "However, in a matter of a month or so, depleted uranium generates amounts of thorium-234 and protactinium-234 which emit beta particles at almost the same rate as that of the alpha particles from the uranium-238. Two beta particles are emitted for each alpha particle."

Thanks for the "teratogenetic" keyword too, there's a lot more likely looking hits now.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

Conceivable, but I do hope you realise that the depletion process is the flip side of the enrichment process for reactor/weapons uranium. Any reduction in depletion means that the good stuff isn't quite as good as it would otherwise be. There may be economic reasons for not extracting as much U235 as possible. Anyone with expertise want to weigh in?

I have no idea how prevalent the process is, but there is a second way to get depleted uranium: From reprocessing spent fuel rods. That source would have the risk of being contaminated with fission byproductions.

Also, not all uranium is enriched to the same degree. Commercial reactors, submarine reactors and weapons all enriched to very different levels. So depletion levels could vary due to that too.

BTW I'm not an expert on this.