Dean Clifford Discussion Thread

[arayder]

This thread is started to encourage a discussion of the theories and exploits of Dean Clifford.

I offer the news section of his web site http://deanclifford.info in the hopes it will prompt discussion.

Freemen, Dean Clifford in particular, are welcome to register at this forum and join in the discussion.

 

[Robrob]

If this is an example of the depth of his legal "analysis" and acumen, I predict it will be a worthless conversation.

Magistrates are some of the dumbest human beings on the planet.
“They are dumb people, they have no clue what is going on and they are just a rubber stamp to believe anything the police say.”
“Let them know who you are and that they are liable for their actions. ” DC
Over 30 people showed up to the court house today in which they were denied access in which the sheriff told everyone it is a “closed hearing”. People also had their recording devices stolen by agents as well today. These courts are not public or for the public but instead are private corporate statutory kangaroo courts.

1) Magistrate Judges are objectively not "dumb."
2) According to his own picture off the sign, no one was "denied entry" but rather not permitted to bring in recording devices unless specifically media or council.
3) No ones devices were "stolen." They were given a choice, leave them outside the courtroom or don't go in.

 

[LSSBB]

This thread is started to encourage a discussion of the theories and exploits of Dean Clifford.

I offer the news section of his web site http://deanclifford.info in the hopes it will prompt discussion.

Freemen, Dean Clifford in particular, are welcome to register at this forum and join in the discussion.

Thanks, for starting this. First, a question: is there a comprehensive pantheon of the FMOTL / SovCit / Moorish National gurus and where they rank? Where does Dean fit in?

 

[arayder]

If this is an example of the depth of his legal "analysis" and acumen, I predict it will be a worthless conversation.

1) Magistrate Judges are objectively not "dumb."
2) According to his own picture off the sign, no one was "denied entry" but rather not permitted to bring in recording devices unless specifically media or council.
3) No ones devices were "stolen." They were given a choice, leave them outside the courtroom or don't go in.

Misstating the facts and overstating their claims so as to portray themselves as victims seems to be a central part of the freeman modus operandi.

Thanks, for starting this. First, a question: is there a comprehensive pantheon of the FMOTL / SovCit / Moorish National gurus and where they rank? Where does Dean fit in?

Dean seems to be getting a lot of press (admittedly self generated) based not on ripping off little old ladies, stealing from trappers or doing a dine and dash, but rather on opposing the authorities freemen love to hate. . .cops and judges.

 

[D'rok]

This thread is started to encourage a discussion of the theories and exploits of Dean Clifford.

I offer the news section of his web site http://deanclifford.info in the hopes it will prompt discussion.

Freemen, Dean Clifford in particular, are welcome to register at this forum and join in the discussion.

Good idea.

Clifford tends to talk rather than write, and his forum is pay-walled, so it would definitely make things easier if one or more of his acolytes showed up to defend him. Absent that, here is his youtube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/DeanCClifford/videos

The GlobalFact radio interviews episodes 1-13 contain pretty much everything, if anyone has the stomach to listen.

 

[D'rok]

Clifford likes to portray himself as an expert in law, with all the usual willful ignorance and hilarious misinterpretation that is common of the FOTL species of barrack-room lawyer. There is one particular piece of idiocy that really bugs me, because it has caught on amongst his flock. I don't know if he originated it, but he definitely preaches it, and his freeple repeat it everywhere. It goes like this:

1. Section 32 of the Constitution Act, 1982 says that the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms only applies to government or government agents.
2. Section 52 of the Constitution Act, 1982 says that the Constitution of Canada is the supreme law of Canada and any law inconsistent with it is of no force or effect.
3. Conclusion: All statutory law applies only to government or government agents. Put another way, any law that targets individual Canadians is of no force or effect because it is inconsistent with the Constitution of Canada.

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/st...le-b-to-the-canada-act-1982-uk-1982-c-11.html

A little bit of common sense should really be all it takes to dismiss this, but the freeple seem to be mesmerized by Clifford's dazzling legal analysis (and his willingness to "lecture" traffic cops on the law when stopped) and find this particular teaching too seductive to resist.

So, in freeple-land, it is perfectly plausible that the government of Pierre Elliot Trudeau (not known as one of Canada's dumber leaders) went to the trouble to construct a constitution with a clause that exempts every Canadian from every law passed by the Trudeau government and every government that followed it. C'mon.

In reality, section 32 means that the Charter protects the enumerated rights of individuals (and some groups) from actions by government or government agents. It doesn't protect individuals from actions by other individuals or non-government agents. Section 52 means that this protection trumps and can't be taken away by ordinary legislation.

A perfect recent example is the Supreme Court of Canada ruling in the Bedford case, where Canada's prostitution laws are struck down for being inconsistent with the Charter.

http://canlii.ca/t/g2f56

 

[D'rok]

An example of Clifford trying to apply his legal expertise to a traffic stop is here:

http://deanclifford.info/docs/OnTheSideOfTheRoad.txt

An amusing element of this little farce is when Clifford cites the Canadian Bill of Rights immediately after explaining that the Charter exempts him from all statutes. The Bill of Rights is an ordinary, non-constitutional statute, just like the various traffic acts that Clifford is trying to weasel out of. By Clifford's own theory, it can't apply to him.

 

[D'rok]

Thanks, for starting this. First, a question: is there a comprehensive pantheon of the FMOTL / SovCit / Moorish National gurus and where they rank? Where does Dean fit in?

In Canada, Clifford is currently at the top of the heap. Depending on the results of his recent legal problems (he is in jail awaiting trial), his reign may be short-lived.

 

[Hans]

I understand that in case he loses the case that some of the DC stalwarts are planning to bake a cake with an emery board inside it.

 

[LordEd]

Freemen, Dean Clifford in particular, are welcome to register at this forum and join in the discussion.

That is, should he be given Internet access in jail, of course.

 

[arayder]

Freemen, Dean Clifford in particular, are welcome to register at this forum and join in the discussion.

That is, should he be given Internet access in jail, of course.

That's a good point. But Dean infers he's going to walk out of the jail a free man any day now.

One wonders how Dean's followers will address the the impracticality of his theories in light of his continued incarceration. So far Clifford's supporters have argued specious points regarding his arrest and the charges against him. Even bmxninja over at the FWS forum has corrected the Clifford crew on how warrants are delivered and arrests are made.

There doesn't seem to be any admission by Dean's followers that he has misrepresented the failures of his theories as successes. According to Dean he was free and and clear prior to his arrest at his seminar. Now he's in the jail house with no explanation as to why his freeman theories didn't save him.

 

[arayder]

it seems a few freemen over at WFS are asking questions about Dean's latest exploits:

https://public.worldfreemansociety....y-unidentified-agents-canadian-video?start=36

Author: hrp

My source told me on the 28th of Dec. 2013, that Dean is under Detention order until trial. OK, now don't shoot me here, I'm not even a piano player. I was told that Dean was arrested and after some time, ( might have been a weekend) signed bail and claimed he got out because of his skills. (If you go to "my private audios" Dean talks about an incident that happened in Winnipeg.)
He would have breached his bail when he left Manitoba. That's why ROPE took him away "no questions asked".
Again, this is from a credible source of mine.

------------------

So is it possible that Dean agrees to bail when he gets busted and then tells his seminar attendees and private audio listeners that he beat the system using his methods?

We know from this Quatloos thread that Dean has a long history of failures he never tells his followers about: http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=9589&hilit=clifford

 

[Horatius]

So is it possible that Dean agrees to bail when he gets busted and then tells his seminar attendees and private audio listeners that he beat the system using his methods?

No, of course not, that would require Dean to be lying. Such a thing is inconceivable! It's much more likely that he's completely correct about our entire system of law and government being a giant fraud that only he knows about.

 

[thedopefishlives]

Such a thing is inconceivable!

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[arayder]

So is it possible that Dean agrees to bail when he gets busted and then tells his seminar attendees and private audio listeners that he beat the system using his methods?

No, of course not, that would require Dean to be lying. Such a thing is inconceivable! It's much more likely that he's completely correct about our entire system of law and government being a giant fraud that only he knows about.

It's the same ruse old detaxers/tax protesters used to pull. No matter what happened in tax court, no matter how many times they were ordered to pay or were fined they used the fact that they were not yet jailed and walking the streets as proof they had beat the system.

Eldon Warman got by because he didn't have enough taxable income and lived with a woman who enabled him. Russ Porisky got by for a while pretending he was free and clear. . .until the IRS jailed him.

Clifford seems to be using the Porisky model and appears to be getting the same result.

Either the young son was delusional enough to believe his own line and thought the authorities wouldn't dare arrest him for violating his bail agreement, or he figured they wouldn't notice that he crossed into another province to give a high profile, web advertised seminar.

Either way, it's a dumb move.

 

[Hans]

Howdy Arayder

A delayed thanks for starting this much needed thread.

Just checking on one thing. Is Dean still in jail awaiting trail?

 

[D'rok]

So is it possible that Dean agrees to bail when he gets busted and then tells his seminar attendees and private audio listeners that he beat the system using his methods?

Yep. Doing a name search in the Manitoba court registry shows that Clifford breached a previous recognizance in April 2010, and an order forfeiting the $500 surety was issued.

http://www.jus.gov.mb.ca/Domain/FileSearch/SearchByOtherInfo.aspx

So, he was out on $500 bail, not his own super-skills, and then left some poor sucker holding the bag when he didn't abide by the conditions of his release. In other words, the honourable freeman broke a contract and someone else had to pay.

Cheat the province, cheat your friends and family. That's the Clifford way. It's the FOTL way, really.

 

[D'rok]

Possibly the most despicably self-serving of all Clifford's ********, is his justification for driving without insurance. It starts at around 52:00 of this video:

http://youtu.be/hdqJaXIx5Rg

It breaks down into two points:

1. Everyone is automatically insured through their birth bond
2. It's not Clifford's responsibility to buy insurance to cover other drivers who are scared to lose their life or property on the road

He explicitly states that if he causes harm, the government pays because they hold his share of Canada's resources in trust for him. He also says that no insurance company has ever paid out on a claim, ever.

Why might he be so insistent about this? Well, probably because the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation (mandatory auto insurance for all Manitobans) has a judgment against him for $50,696.07, presumably an action for recovery of benefits stemming from an accident involving an uninsured Clifford.

In other words, Clifford caused harm and didn't take responsibility. The insurance company paid, and now has to try and collect from the deadbeat FOTLer.

(Name search here to see)
http://www.jus.gov.mb.ca/Domain/FileSearch/SearchByOtherInfo.aspx

 

[D'rok]

it seems a few freemen over at WFS are asking questions about Dean's latest exploits:

https://public.worldfreemansociety....y-unidentified-agents-canadian-video?start=36

Author: hrp

My source told me on the 28th of Dec. 2013, that Dean is under Detention order until trial. OK, now don't shoot me here, I'm not even a piano player. I was told that Dean was arrested and after some time, ( might have been a weekend) signed bail and claimed he got out because of his skills. (If you go to "my private audios" Dean talks about an incident that happened in Winnipeg.)
He would have breached his bail when he left Manitoba. That's why ROPE took him away "no questions asked".
Again, this is from a credible source of mine.

The WFS strategy for getting him out is priceless:

my bet is dean still retains [T]heir birth certificate.[ties that bind]..Suggestion at his so called trial that may never come someone should get this document an renounce it/surrender/abandon said document while stating =on record such has been done clasping any all trusts.... in court hand it too the so called crown....telling them that said document evidences Fraud on the federal level an the a provincial has no right to hear a federal case.
now get the transscripts an file them back into the alleged case as evidence.
Check mate!!!!


Once this is done get a family member too go claim the cargo known as the human Dean.
Through a habeas corpus motion.

 

[arayder]

Howdy Arayder

A delayed thanks for starting this much needed thread.

Just checking on one thing. Is Dean still in jail awaiting trail?

You are welcome.

According to sources inside the freeman subculture he is still in jail. His December 20th hearing was unsuccessful by his own report.

Since Dean treats each of his releases as if he were Mandela leaving Robben Island the fact that we haven't gotten a YouTube on his release tells us he's still in the pokey.

Perhaps one of the regulars here with better research skills than I can let us know if there is official word of his incarceration?