Dealing with grief

[Chicken Pot Pie]

From this thread

Yes, especially as I'm going to start substitute teaching toward the end of the month. I have to smile and nod when they teachers go on about their churches, and invitations, since most know we don't attend anywhere here.

In fact, when our son drowned in April, (he would have been 15 on the 15th of this month) we had to hold his service at the high school auditorium as there were over 700 in attendance, with the football team lining our way in and his closest teammates and 3 coaches as pall bearers. We had a pastor from the large Babtist church in town, selected by my husband who had heard his radio messages before. The only other service held in that school was the founder of Dollar General Markets, so we feel comforted that our son meant enough to folks here to make the exception for him. They even postponed tje "CATS" testing for that week. He was an outstanding athelete, football and basketball, 6'2", 175lbs. The high school football coach wanted him to be the starting QB for the Varsity team, though he would have only been a Freshman. He was benching 195, curling 55lbs (his biceps were HUGE), wore a size 13 shoe, a bonafide "hottie" according to all the girls, lol, and was 14-1/2 years +2 days old when he drowned due to hypothermia. Hot day, 55 degree water - bad mix. (Sorry to go off topic, it's just it's really hard knowing we could have been celebrating a birthday tomorrow... It has been awful.)

I appreciate all the comments everyone is posting. Personal experiences give me a bit of insight for coming up with how I can deal with this all, and I'm glad no one thinks I'm bad for not just blurting it out. I really need this subbing job, and hope to be called often. I don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face...

Sorry to start another thread about our situation, but I learned something today. My husband has felt for many years the opinion of "how can god kill masses in hurricanes, disasters, etc". He's always hated that people use the old flimsy "god works in mysterious ways" argument. He was raised Luthern, I was raised Baptist, both in the north. In the case of losing our son in April, he has become terribly depressed. He was off on workmans' comp due to being hit by a tow motor at work. He was scheduled to return to work on the 18th of April, and Chris drowned on the 17th. Our grief counsellor told him to get an FMLA. They flatly refused, wouldn't return our calls, and we got his termination notice after giving him a few bereavement days. Understandably, being there when Chris drowned affected him, and with no insurance, he can't afford to seek more counselling or even some anti-depressants. He only has a short time left on unemployment, but would need to make 14 dollars an hour to do better than his UE. Things are tough, with a mortgage and gas prices, etc. But today I think I put my finger on what is hurting him the most.

He said today that if there is no god/afterlife, then how will he ever see Chris again? What's the use of doing anything if there's no reward in the end? I've tried to reassure him that WE need him to continue as a husband and father to the youngest so left at home. I sure could use some thoughts on this. I've been staying involved in our community arts council, played a role in a play last month, and have worked to get onto the substitute teaching list. I think the pay is 60 dollars a day here, but who knows how often I'll get used, and there's no health benefits for subs. But I'm making an effort to work through my grief as best as I know how. But I don't know how to help him. I read Roadtoad's thread about the little boy with leukemia, and it breaks my heart all over again. We couldn't even donate most of Chris' organs and tissues (other than his eyes - he had 20/15 "pilots'" vision) due to being underwater for over 2 hours. You can see that we have very recently dumped the god stuff, but it is still strong enough to make my dear husband cry over the thought of never seeing our son in any kind of afterlife. It's been 6 months and 2 days since we lost Chris - here is a link from September of 2004: http://eteamz.active.com/acspatriotfootball/news/index.cfm?cat=263810
Scroll to the bottom of the page.

I don't want to "forget" Chris. I want to live my life in a way Chris would have been proud of me. And I want to help my husband as he struggles with this issue. I just don't know where to start.

 

[Chicken Pot Pie]

Oh, and another thing, here I sit, at 1:46am, having trouble sleeping myself. I feel like things are going from bad to worse, and yet I know there are answers out there that can help my family, no matter how hard they may be for my husband to accept at this time. But at least I'm seeking for something other than the usual woo woo BS. I've never had to lose someone this close and so young.

 

[El Greco]

For me, the fact that our lives have no inherent "meaning" is not disappointing but rather liberating. I wouldn't really want a deity giving *its* meaning to *my* life. I feel free to choose my own path, give myself a meaning to my own life, and see the accomplishment of my goals as my reward - a reward I'll be collecting in this very life. Sometimes I will be forced to change my plans or even the whole "purpose" of my life; but this will not stop me from reassinging a "meaning"; one that better suits the new circumstances.

 

[Chicken Pot Pie]

I think, El Greco, that this is what he is struggling with. He wonders what kind of meaning there is at all now. I even feel like he's wanting our youngest to play football since Chris was so talented in that area. As far as getting a new job, he hesitates because he doesn't want to miss out on games and activities, like band the our youngest is involved in. But if he doesn't find something soon, I'm afraid our situation will become worse, to the point of losing our house. He needs a reality check. Doing nothing is getting him nowhere. Having tried to save Chris himself, he feels guilty for not getting to him in time. He does realize that he is having unrealistic fears, but just knowing that isn't good enough. We need an intervention, maybe, to show him life is still good. Perhaps he is suffering from post traumatic stress syndrome. At first I felt he needed time to grieve, so I wasn't so concerned, but as it's been 6 months now, he seems to be doing worse than better. I don't think he's suicidal at all, he's just confused and is not functioning as a complete human. I know that he has to want to change, but it just doesn't seem like he's moving in any direction except backward. I truly think his feelings of guilt are the root of his problem. I agree with you - he deserves to give himself his rewards through his own acomplishments. He wasn't this upset when he lost his grandfather, perhaps because grandfather was in his 80's, and Chris had so much potential at 14. He even questions his "good behavior" he's lived since we married, thinking he was better off when he didn't care how he acted (as a car salesman, etc.) He wonders what's the point of trying to always do the good and "right" things, when as he acted in that way he was punished by the loss of Chris. Does that make any sense, they way I'm expressing it?

 

[egslim]

What's the use of doing anything if there's no reward in the end?

There is a reward, but it's now, not in the end. Living a fulfilled life is a reward in itself, because of the feeling of accomplishment it gives and the happiness of the ones you love.

You could ask you husband to picture in his mind his family, ten years from now. (Have him sit comfortably and close his eyes to make it easier.)
First scenario: He keeps sulking, doesn't find a job, and things get tougher and tougher.
Second scenario: Despite the pain, he realises his moral obligation as a husband and a father, finds a job and does his best to support his loved ones.
The idea is to let him imagine both scenario's as vivid as possible. (It's something an hypnotherapist might try.) Make suggestions for both scenario's, for example a setback like an accident without insurance in the first and his sons happiness about a great grade in the second.

The more vivid his imagination, the scarier it will be. I'm sorry it might be hard for you too, remember that it's imaginary and our imagination can scare us far more than any real life experience ever will. But it should provide him with motivation.

 

[1984]

Kabookie, I just sent you a private message that I was unable to post on the forum due to technical reasons. Click your User CP link when logged in. If you need the references, I can chase them up for you, but will have to private message them back.

I read somewhere that skeptics have varying opinions. I wondered how this could be. Months later, before joining the JREF forums, I came across a skeptic's arguement about why they beleive in a "god" or higher something-or-other, of sorts. Sorry, I don't recall the posting but could also try and locate it. There was also a skeptical Buddhist whose postings I came across. And James Randi commented some weeks ago that the forum isn't site specifically for aetheists. Some of us are here to have fun, sure. But a few are here to make a difference.

Point being, there may be a reason for making an effort at all in living one's life. Just that we don't, or are not meant to see it.

 

[Dymanic]

kabookie,

My deepest condolences on your loss. I don't have to try very hard to imagine what you and your husband have been going through for the last six months. I lost a son thirteen years ago to a traffic accident. It was two weeks after his seventeenth birthday. A thing like this, it's like getting hit by an avalanche. It isn't something you handle; it handles you. It'll dump you somewhere eventually, you'll just have to wait to see where (half the fun of this whole adventure is that you never know what's going to happen next, I always say).

If your experience is anything like mine, you may notice that people around you (and, especially, you yourself) will tend to form expectations about where you ought to be with this "grief process". That isn't how it works. You're going to feel what you're going to feel, and that's just how it is. If you get all hung up on whether you're feeling what you're supposed to be feeling or doing what you're supposed to be doing, you'll just wear yourself out. Try to relax, pace yourself, it's a long road.

And what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Your husband hasn't made friends with the pain yet. That's going to take as long as it takes, and nothing you can do is going to make it happen any faster. You needing it to happen faster isn't going to make it happen any faster. Anti-depressants aren't going to make it happen any faster. Counseling... probably isn't going to make it happen any faster (though, like chicken soup, it couldn't hurt).

The whole trick is to take it a day at a time. Seriously.

You aren't going to forget Cris. I guarantee it.

 

[Mephisto]

kabookie,

First I'd like to offer my condolences in the death of your son. You are going through any parent's worst nightmare and I wouldn't wish your pain on my worst enemy.

I think I should speak up for the Agnostics on the forum, maybe it will help your husband cope a little better. Unlike Atheists, we Agnostics don't deny the existence of God or heaven, but insist that, as humans, we can't possibily know God's intentions. I personally feel that there is a God, but that he refuses to be bent into the God of the Bible, the Torah or the Koran. In essence, the God I believe in is far more mysterious than the Christian God simply because he isn't human and we can't ascribe our "human-ness" to him.

My personal view of heaven (if it's a place where I can truly be happy as a reward for the good I've done in my life) is one where I can be reunited with all the people and animals who have positively touched my life. I see it as a continuation of life on this world, but without the concerns of this world (war, hunger, death, destruction, disease, etc.).

I think it's possible to turn away from God as he's perceived by the masses (through organized religion or culture and upbringing) to see a God that is far more compassionate and loving than any religion could produce. If our afterlife is one of our own creation (an idea I've tossed around), wouldn't it make sense to include the hopes that you might one day hold your son again? Just my feeble-minded thoughts, but I know that I would personally need help getting through your horrible ordeal and the idea that I will see someone close to me again might give me the impetus to keep going.

 

[Amapola]

Kabookie, my heart goes out to you. I lost my father this year, and initially I did not think I could survive the grief.

I don't think your husband's reaction is all that unusual, but I can see you are in a tough spot. Chris is not the only child that he needs to be concerned with. Is there a hospital near you? Most hospitals offer a grief couseling service. Since your husband is not working, perhaps he would volunteer his time to work with the grief counselor at the hospital. Helping others should help him to see this in perspective, get him out of himself and he would see that he IS useful and needed. (And of course, if he works with the grief counselor, he will learn some techniques for dealing with a traumatic loss like this.)

You should also be mindful of yourself, although it sounds like you are taking the right track here. One thing I did learn from the grief counselor is that the primary caregiver (that would be both of you) often suffers the worst many months after the loss. For this reason I am being very mindful to call my mother at least once a week, and speak to her about upbeat things although we allow ourselves to feel sad when that feeling is there.

As a skeptic, I do not believe I will ever see my father again. I try to honor him in my memory, and when the grief is there I acknowledge it and go through it. If I had not loved my father so much I would not feel it, so my tears prove that I am capable of love, and I believe that is a very great thing indeed.

 

[Chicken Pot Pie]

good suggestion

There is a reward, but it's now, not in the end. Living a fulfilled life is a reward in itself, because of the feeling of accomplishment it gives and the happiness of the ones you love.

You could ask you husband to picture in his mind his family, ten years from now. (Have him sit comfortably and close his eyes to make it easier.)
First scenario: He keeps sulking, doesn't find a job, and things get tougher and tougher.
Second scenario: Despite the pain, he realises his moral obligation as a husband and a father, finds a job and does his best to support his loved ones.
The idea is to let him imagine both scenario's as vivid as possible. (It's something an hypnotherapist might try.) Make suggestions for both scenario's, for example a setback like an accident without insurance in the first and his sons happiness about a great grade in the second.

The more vivid his imagination, the scarier it will be. I'm sorry it might be hard for you too, remember that it's imaginary and our imagination can scare us far more than any real life experience ever will. But it should provide him with motivation.

That's a lot like what our grief counselor told him, which was "I" over "E". Intellect over emotion. He lost his insurance when he lost his job, so that ended the counselling sessions. He was so upset for a while that he was afraid to leave the house, or that something bad would happen if I or my son went anywhere. He was tempted to call the counselor one day when he was having a hard time to see if he would come to our house. His response was to the effect that he does do house calls, but he would not have come for that reason, as it would feed into hubby's fears, exactly what we didn't need. Those visualization exercises could help open his mind to where he's headed if he can't move on, and I think it's worth a try. Thanks...

 

[Chicken Pot Pie]

Dynamic, you're right about the avalanche, and it is handling us, as you say. I suppose you're right that my wanting things to get better quicker is not helping things, either. It's hard to see the spark gone from his eyes, and I feel helpless. I also feel for your loss. I appreciate your kind words and suggestions.

kabookie

 

[Chicken Pot Pie]

Amapola, we actually ganged up on him and went to see Wallace and Gromit on Sunday with my older sons and daughter-in-law. Even that was hard to get him to do. I don't know if he would volunteer in that way, but I'm finding some things for him to read, though I've decided I'm not going to rush him. He'll have to be the one to see that he needs to make something change, and I'll be right there to love him and hold him through it all. Thanks,
kabookie

 

[kittynh]

First off I am so sorry about your loss.
Time is the greatest healer. I lost my best friend and while I am still not over her, and she is alive in my memory. You are forever changed when someone you deeply love dies. I just remember one day knowing that one day I would be able to feel a little better. That hope carried me through.
You could contact the local mental health deparment in your area. I do volunteer work at a drop in center. We have free therapy, including grief therapy and support groups. Plus, if there is a drop in center he might be able to get out of the house. Maybe what he needs to hear is that it is going to get better. And he'll be able to think of his son without guilt, but with pride and a smile. He'll never forget his son. But he needs to focus on the good times. That way he'll never die, rather than die over and over in your husbands memory.

An afterlife belief may get him through a rough patch. I know Hal, who works with JREF and is a wonderful man, is a believer because he would love to be reunited with his wife again.

I would really try to get your husband more therapy. And a grief support group would be very helpful. Sometimes it's nice knowing you aren't the only ones. And no one can understand how you feel, other than another parent that has lost a child.

It sounds like your son was living an amazing life. He was lucky to have parents that love him as much as you do. that love never dies.

 

[Chicken Pot Pie]

sadly, true...

First off I am so sorry about your loss.
Sometimes it's nice knowing you aren't the only ones. And no one can understand how you feel, other than another parent that has lost a child.

It sounds like your son was living an amazing life. He was lucky to have parents that love him as much as you do. that love never dies.

(Thanks, kittynh...! And I'm sorry for your loss as well.)

Chris was "shown" for the first time on April 19th. Our town had lost a band member to cancer three years ago, and last year a neighbor's good friend (girls, both) in a car accident. At the funeral home a young man signed Chris' book, went home and asked his father why all the young kids were going and he was left. That night he had a four-wheeler accident. He held on for nearly a week, but he didn't make it. Two young men, so close together hit our town hard. In June we spoke with his father, and he agrees, it doesn't get much easier with time. Both boys had birthdays last week, ours on the 15th and the other would have been 18 on the 11th.

Chris used to work out in the winters for the upcoming football seasons. Between lifting here, at school, and the local YMCA, it seems that's all he ever did. He'd become a fixture there, lol, and just Saturday one of the doctors whose son played against our youngerst in football told us HIS son idolized Chris. The coaches' sons, little'uns, would run and jump into his arms after a good basketball game. He was so disciplined, he knew he had to keep up his grades and did so without my having to harp on him. I, personally, was in awe of him. The YMCA is making a memorial plaque for the aquatic area with his picture since he practically lived there. I'm sure there are many more kids and adults who were touched by his life as we were.

In my heart, I know things have to get better. I need to find my patience and strength and do whatever I can for my husband. I'd felt his (our) agnosticism for years, but this is bothering him more now since he feels he's "never going to SEE Chris again". I'd like to find just the right words or resources to help him over that one major hurdle, and I know it will be painful for me as well as for hubby. I'll look into a support group. We're close to Bowling Green, KY, so there surely must be something there of that nature. Thanks again, kittynh.

 

[1984]

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less; as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

<O</O

- John DONNE (1573-1631)