• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Dawkins vs. Haggard

ravdin

Illuminator
ravdin
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Messages
4,985
Fascinating interview. Richard Dawkins goes to Ted Haggard's megachurch. His expression while sitting in the audience is priceless- but it gets disturbing at the end when Haggard has a meltdown over "arrogant" scientists.

Very timely, and apropos of the theme of TAM5!

I haven't posted enough to include a link- go to youtube dot com and search for "Dawkins Haggard".
 
ravdin said:
Fascinating interview. Richard Dawkins goes to Ted Haggard's megachurch. His expression while sitting in the audience is priceless- but it gets disturbing at the end when Haggard has a meltdown over "arrogant" scientists.

Very timely, and apropos of the theme of TAM5!

I haven't posted enough to include a link- go to youtube dot com and search for "Dawkins Haggard".
Click to expand...

 
lol, talk about a backhanded compliment....:D

Dawkins "You're certainly very effective. i was reminded of the Nuremberg rallies - Dr Goebels would have been proud."
Click to expand...
 
I have to watch this --this should make for great tv (don't remember the last time I watched my actual tv ---digital cable is basically just a broadband internet provider for me now).
 
Well, just watched it. I think Haggard actually had a pretty good point about intellectual arrogance. The only thing is I doubt he's as dumb as he pretends to be, I think he's probably just very good at pretending to be as average (or slightly below average) intelligence as he does. Sort of a wolf in sheep's clothing leading his flock. Although using outcome-based analysis he doesn't seem so smart recently.
 
This one you've got to see to believe:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF, the JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Click to expand...
 
CFLarsen said:
1:10 into this, notice how he ....interacts...with some fiiiiine lookin' young men.
Click to expand...

I never noticed that before. I bet that scene could be improved by adding some music from Brokeback Mountain.
 
Dave1001 said:
Well, just watched it. I think Haggard actually had a pretty good point about intellectual arrogance. The only thing is I doubt he's as dumb as he pretends to be, I think he's probably just very good at pretending to be as average (or slightly below average) intelligence as he does. Sort of a wolf in sheep's clothing leading his flock. Although using outcome-based analysis he doesn't seem so smart recently.
Click to expand...

You just won't give up on outcome (wealth) = intelligence, will you?

Also, it's amazing that you can watch the same video as the rest of us and derive from that scene that Haggard "has a good point about intellectual arrogance." Did you see the look of unbelievable smugness on Haggard's face as he uttered those words? Did you notice him saying, "If you only knew the things I know, then you would be great like me?" Did you not note the astounding irony of his saying that to Dr. Richard Dawkins, a first rate scientist, of all people?

Here's my hypothesis, Dave. Haggard wasn't lying when he said he doesn't know anything about the Nuremberg rallies. I think Dawkins' insult was completely lost on Haggard. Haggard is an intellectual rube and a charlatan. He is a charismatic religious leader who has learned, like so many others before him, how to push the buttons of his flock. That's it. It doesn't take a great deal of smarts to do that. It takes a lot of gall and a fundamental dishonesty, but not intelligence. It's remarkable that you seem unable to tell them apart.

AS
 
Last edited:
AmateurScientist said:
Also, it's amazing that you can watch the same video as the rest of us and derive from that scene that Haggard "has a good point about intellectual arrogance." Did you see the look of unbelievable smugness on Haggard's face as he uttered those words? Did you notice him saying, "If you only knew the things I know, then you would be great like me?" Did you not note the astounding irony of his saying that to Dr. Richard Dawkins, a first rate scientist, of all people?
Click to expand...
I noticed it and I thought it was just so obvious. Haggard was so arrogant while accusing Dawkins of intellectual arrogance.
 
AmateurScientist said:
You just won't give up on outcome (wealth) = intelligence, will you?

Also, it's amazing that you can watch the same video as the rest of us and derive from that scene that Haggard "has a good point about intellectual arrogance." Did you see the look of unbelievable smugness on Haggard's face as he uttered those words? Did you notice him saying, "If you only knew the things I know, then you would be great like me?" Did you not note the astounding irony of his saying that to Dr. Richard Dawkins, a first rate scientist, of all people?

Here's my hypothesis, Dave. Haggard wasn't lying when he said he doesn't know anything about the Nuremberg rallies. I think Dawkins' insult was completely lost on Haggard. Haggard is an intellectual rube and a charlatan. He is a charismatic religious leader who has learned, like so many others before him, how to push the buttons of his flock. That's it. It doesn't take a great deal of smarts to do that. It takes a lot of gall and a fundamental dishonesty, but not intelligence. It's remarkable that you seem unable to tell them apart.

AS
Click to expand...

Well, I think Haggard does have a good point about intellectual arrogance- I think there is populist element to people claiming they believe in creationism, the literal bible, and what not. It's resistance to hierarchical subordination to a class of experts. We can't all be first rate evolutionary biologists, and most of us probably can't be the equivalent in any field, but we can all freely choose to believe or disbelieve in the the theory of evolution.

I don't need folks like Haggard to be some sort of B movie villian or foil to prove my alpha male bonafides against. It was interesting to see him at work as a pretty good sophist. Too bad his sophistry is (presumably) directed against some important causes (even to him) such as fetal stem cell research. That's in none of our interests for fetal stem cell research to be blocked. The battle against evolution is a more harmless way to demagogue off of scientists, in my opinion.
 
slingblade said:
No, sarcasm. Lighten up and/or get over yourself. Cripes.
Click to expand...

Eh? I got your sarcasm and was piling on. Perhaps I have to start putting one of these: :p in front of every non-serious post.:(




PS A preemptive :p for post #18

PSS One of these for the PS :p
 
Dave1001 said:
I don't need folks like Haggard to be some sort of B movie villian or foil to prove my alpha male bonafides against. It was interesting to see him at work as a pretty good sophist. Too bad his sophistry is (presumably) directed against some important causes (even to him) such as fetal stem cell research. That's in none of our interests for fetal stem cell research to be blocked. The battle against evolution is a more harmless way to demagogue off of scientists, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Again, I find it amazing that you can watch the same video I did and you get that out of it. You imply that Dawkins uses Haggard as a foil to make himself appear dominant. That's ridiculous. Dawkins needs no foil. Besides, that is not Dawkins' point in attacking Haggard. Dawkins isn't dragging Haggard down to make himself appear taller.

Dawkins is appalled --and rightly so-- by the followings that vapid charismatics like Haggard gather with their feel good non-thinking nonsense. Dawkins' enemy is faith, not popularity. He isn't interested in being an alpha male and being worshipped by a flock of followers. Dawkins genuinely cares about the lack of intellectually rigorous public discourse in our society today, and particularly in the U.S., where he notes that fully 45% of Americans claim to believe the universe is less than 10,000 years old. Dawkins' enemy is faith, and in particular the Bible. I'm with him.

If you think that's intellectual arrogance, or if you think Haggard made any sense at all or scored any rhetorical points, then you missed the entire point of Dawkins' program.

AS
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom