Crusaders seek new converts

[Mycroft]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060902/ap_on_re_mi_ea/gaza_journalists

Palestinian group to target non-Muslims

CAIRO, Egypt - Palestinian militants who held two Fox News journalists hostage for nearly two weeks threatened in a statement posted online Saturday to abduct non-Muslims visiting the Palestinian territories and kill them unless their demands were met.

The statement, posted in the name of the Holy Jihad Brigades on a Web site frequently used by militants, said the group would kill any hostages it takes unless they converted to Islam, paid a ransom or Muslim prisoners were exchanged for their release.

"Any infidel blood will have no sanctity," the group said in the statement.

So the latest is Islamic militants kidnapping non-Muslims and forcing conversions to Islam. More and more the evidence is that it's more about religion and less about "injustices" done to Middle Eastern peoples.

 

[bob_kark]

So the latest is Islamic militants kidnapping non-Muslims and forcing conversions to Islam. More and more the evidence is that it's more about religion and less about "injustices" done to Middle Eastern peoples.

You seem to be reaching a bit. How does this show that the militants involved didn't initially become extremists due to percieved injustice?

 

[Art Vandelay]

I think that, from an etymological point of view, "lunatics" would be a term more apt than "crusaders".

 

[Skeptic]

As long as they were only shouting, "death to the jewish infidels, the sons of dogs and pigs", it was quite easy to rationalize and say that they don't really hate jews with a genocidal passion for religious reasons, but rather they're "just" "anti-zionists" for "nationalist" reasons (as if that makes their desire for genocide any more justifiable, but let's ignore that).

Now that they are shouting, "death to ALL infidels, the sons of dogs and pigs" (or the equivalent), the rationalization is becoming a bit more difficult, but I'm sure the usual gang will find some way to explain how that, too, is the jews' fault. "Root cause", anybody?

 

[bob_kark]

As long as they were only shouting, "death to the jewish infidels, the sons of dogs and pigs", it was quite easy to rationalize and say that they don't really hate jews with a genocidal passion for religious reasons, but rather they're "just" "anti-zionists" for "nationalist" reasons (as if that makes their desire for genocide any more justifiable, but let's ignore that).

Now that they are shouting, "death to ALL infidels, the sons of dogs and pigs" (or the equivalent), the rationalization is becoming a bit more difficult, but I'm sure the usual gang will find some way to explain how that, too, is the jews' fault. "Root cause", anybody?

Who was claiming any of this?

 

[Rob Lister]

DUBAI (Reuters) - Al Qaeda called on non-Muslims especially in the United States to convert to Islam and abandon their 'misguided' ways or else suffer, according to a video tape posted on a Web site on Saturday.

The speaker was identified as Azzam the American, also known as Adam Yahiye Gadahn -- an Islamic convert from California wanted for questioning by the FBI and who U.S. authorities believe to be involved in an information campaign for al Qaeda.

"To Americans and the rest of Christendom we say, either repent (your) misguided ways and enter into the light of truth or keep your poison to yourself and suffer the consequences in this world and the next," Gadahn said in English.

He appeared in the video dressed in a white turban and seated in front of a computer and books.

Al Qaeda's second-in-command Ayman al-Zawhari made a brief statement at the beginning of the tape -- dated September 2006 -- urging viewers to listen carefully to the message, entitled: "An Invitation to Islam".

http://today.reuters.com/news/artic...C_0_US-SECURTIY-QAEDA-TAPE.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

 

[Kopji]

Several Muslim clerics have issued edicts in the past stating that a visa issued by an Islamic country to a non-Muslim person carries an implicit guarantee of the holder's safety.

One of the most recent fatwas, issued in August by an Egyptian cleric, asserted that the guarantee applies to visiting Israelis in spite of popular anger over Israeli military action in Gaza and Lebanon.

I wish they'd make up their minds.

 

[Mycroft]

You seem to be reaching a bit. How does this show that the militants involved didn't initially become extremists due to percieved injustice?

I'm not speaking in absolutes. When I say "more about" religion and "less abuot" percieved injustices, it allowes for other factors.

I think that, from an etymological point of view, "lunatics" would be a term more apt than "crusaders".

I chose the term "Crusader" on purpose as it is the term that the most militant among the Islamists use to describe their grievances with the West. In using it, I illustrate the extremist Islamists are guilty of exactly the same things they accuse their percieved enemies of.

http://today.reuters.com/news/artic...C_0_US-SECURTIY-QAEDA-TAPE.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

I wish they'd make up their minds.

I don't expect consistancy from Islamists. Forced conversion, I understand, is specifically forbidden in the Qu'ran, but that doesn't stop them. Also, if they were consistent, they could be appeased.

 

[Dr Adequate]

Mycroft, don't you ever tell the truth?

Surely you know someone who could explain the difference between a crusade and a jihad?

Hint: check the religion.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I chose the term "Crusader" on purpose as it is the term that the most militant among the Islamists use to describe their grievances with the West. In using it, I illustrate the extremist Islamists are guilty of exactly the same things they accuse their percieved enemies of.

Yeah, I appreciate the hypocrisy. I just thought I'd make a bit of a pun on the symbols of the respective religions.

 

[Mycroft]

Mycroft, don't you ever tell the truth?

Surely you know someone who could explain the difference between a crusade and a jihad?

Hint: check the religion.

Jihad has some connotations of "inner struggle" that don't seem to apply to this situation. Because of that reason, and for the reasons I've already described, I believe adopting the Christian word to the Islamist purpose is more accurate.

Thank you for your contribution, though. Stay as long as you like and don't forget to sample the lemon squares before you leave.

 

[Mycroft]

Yeah, I appreciate the hypocrisy. I just thought I'd make a bit of a pun on the symbols of the respective religions.

Ah, I didn't even considre that.