Crib death woo?

[Ixion]

Well, I am not sure what subforum to put this in, so I guess Science/Medicine is a good enough start.

A bit of backstory - As some of you may know, my wife and I are expecting our first child in September. As such, we have been attending a child-birthing class (which was very good). Our last class was this past Saturday. During the class, a pediatrician here in Tucson came and spoke to the class for about 20 minutes on the importance of choosing a pediatrician. His name is Dr. Duane Dyson. He has an MD and is board certified with the American Board of Pediatrics.

He started talking about what to expect after delivery and the first visit to the doctor with our new child. He recommended vaccines (all good so far) and the types of basic physical exams a pediatrician might make (such as checking hearing and vision). Some questions came up with the members of the class about when friends and family can visit your new baby and sun exposure and such. All of his recommendations so far seem reasonable.

Then a question comes up about SIDS. He starts out with the possible risk factors:

• Co-sleeping, due to potential smothering by sheets or rolling on the infant
• Smoking
• Sleeping on the stomach

Ok, so far, so good. I have heard of all of these before. Then he hits us with:

• toxigenic fumes from brand mattresses

Ok, I have heard similar before, but only from my somewhat woo friend whose internet browsing is credulous at best. He goes on to say (paraphrasing): They won't ever recall the mattresses because there is big money in it, so lobbyists for the baby companies prevent any recall. You need to air out a mattress for a few weeks so that your baby won't breathe in the fumes and possibly die. Or, you can buy a $27 mattress cover that will prevent the fumes from reaching your baby. I recommend this to all my parents. The research has been done but it won't be published because the lobbyists also target doctors.
Ok, we have a new, off-the-deep-end (IMO), checklist:

• Scare tactics
• Big business/government cover-up
• Non-publishable

It reeks of conspiracy theory. Of course, when I get home, I do a quick search on PubMed, but only really find papers on co-sleeping, smoking, toxigenic mold from used mattresses causing anaphalaxis, and sleeping position of the baby. So, am I reading too much into this pediatrician's recommendation and potential conspiracy theory, or is there any actual evidence to back this up? I included the pediatrician's name because he clearly was representing himself as a member of the pediatric community and a public figure.

 

[GregInAustin]

Congratulations on your first child!

Even doctors can be crackpots. Tell him thanks for sharing his opinion (since he has no medical data to back up his claim) and then go find a different pediatrician. From what you are saying, I would venture to guess he's getting a kickback from the manufacturer of the mattress cover.

The mattress claim should be simple to verify. Try Consumer Reports, or any of the dozens of online reviews for any particular brand name mattress.

 

[Ixion]

Congratulations on your first child!

Thank you!

Even doctors can be crackpots. Tell him thanks for sharing his opinion (since he has no medical data to back up his claim) and then go find a different pediatrician. From what you are saying, I would venture to guess he's getting a kickback from the manufacturer of the mattress cover.

The mattress claim should be simple to verify. Try Consumer Reports, or any of the dozens of online reviews for any particular brand name mattress.

Yeah, I know that having a degree does not excuse a professional from having crackpot ideas.

It may not be as easy as you think. First of all, there is a lot of crap on the internet. Finding a reliable report may not be easy. Secondly, Consumer Reports probably reports on the quality of the mattress and functionality, not the potential health risks (although I hope they do; I have never really looked at health-related items on CR). Thirdly, SIDS is not necessarily an easy thing to pin a culprit on. If a parent comes and finds their child unresponsive in bed, then a lot of investigative medicine is required to possibly determine the culprit.

 

[tesscaline]

Ix -- Here's a website dedicated to providing information (rational information, from what I can tell) about SIDS. The page I'm linking to is one that details how the claims about mattress fumes causing SIDS have been disproved. http://www.sids-network.org/experts...eath.htm#Mattress link to cot death ruled out They even have sections of the report in question published on their site, as well as cite the report directly (completely with contact information on where to obtain a copy).

 

[casebro]

Recent reading led me to a site about a genetic link to SIDS, something to do with deficient brain development. HVxx? Hypo-Ventilation something and other. HVPT? HVTP? Sorry, didn't take notes, I was looking for my 90 yo Dad's breathing irregularity. Opposite end of the boat.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Congrats on your September surprise!


Back to the thread. Some new hypotheses on SIDS deserve investigation. I was often paranoid about SIDS after my son was born. Boys affected, more than girls, and when he was at the most at risk age, .... sometimes it is not helpful to know too much about a risk.

By luck (coincidence), my son seemed to prefer to sleep on his back so that's how I let him sleep, despite my nursing education that called for putting babies on their side or stomach to prevent them aspirating (which I have never investigated as to the validity of the belief). A few years later the evidence emerged that putting young infants on their backs markedly decreased the incidence of SIDS deaths.

But the mechanism of death is believed to be a buildup of CO2 around the face, not toxic fumes from a new mattress. The link posted above by Skeptichick, "BMJ 1998;316:1553 ( 23 May ); News; Mattress link to cot death ruled out", has an excellent summary of where the myth originated and what was done to test the hypothesis and rule it out.


What's interesting and sad is that once the bad medicine is out there, it seems to never die. And look at the key feature which perpetuates this kind of myth: the myth of the big money secret world order cabal. Big corporations do have power and influence, but they don't control all scientific research or dissemination of all scientific information gained in the research. Any time you see a claim that "they are covering up the information" and the claim is about a subject that undoubtedly has generated a large amount of research, you can assume the claim is bunk.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Recent reading led me to a site about a genetic link to SIDS, something to do with deficient brain development. HVxx? Hypo-Ventilation something and other. HVPT? HVTP? Sorry, didn't take notes, I was looking for my 90 yo Dad's breathing irregularity. Opposite end of the boat.

SIDS: genetic and environmental influences may cause arrhythmia in this silent killer

It is likely that the etiology of SIDS is heterogeneous and may result from the interaction of a number of genetic and environmental factors. It remains to be determined how many cases of SIDS may eventually be linked to mutations predisposing the carrier to cardiac arrhythmia.

There is still a lot of research to be done.

 

[Ixion]

Thank you all for the responses. Skeptichick, I will definitely check out the sources on the link, which Skeptic Ginger referred to.

 

[Soapy Sam]

As a kid, in Britain, I recall seeing many babies asleep. None , that I recall, was face down. Had I seen a baby in that position, I would have turned it on it's side.

As a young man (we're now into the 70s and 80s) , I was surprised to see a different generation of babies zonked- pretty well uniformly- on their fronts. Exactly when the change happened, I don't know. Around 1970 .

Sleeping on your front has always seemed bizarre to me. I only ever knew one adult to do it.

The other difference I noticed in baby care was in clothing. The 1960s weans wore a cloth nappy and that was it. The 1980s weans had disposable (and bulky) pants, with plastic covers and often a sleeping suit of some sort over that. This despite the fact that 1960s homes were coal fired , draughty and cool compared to the gas / electric, centrally heated homes of the 80s. I've often thought babies must overheat and be part suffocated with all the stuff they wear- not to mention their evident frustration at being unable to move. Wrap me up like that and I'd go stir crazy. Who'd be a baby?

 

[Ixion]

Sleeping on your front has always seemed bizarre to me. I only ever knew one adult to do it.

Do you mean facedown? I sleep on my stomach. I know a number of other people that also sleep on their stomachs. I have to be physically and mentally exhausted to fall asleep on my back.

 

[bruto]

The idea that there is some kind of baby-mattress cabal that is concealing toxigenic mattresses and suppressing studies is pretty far out. What would be in it for the industry? After all, it's not that hard to change materials in a mattress. If there really were such a problem, and even if there were a secret baby mattress cartel, you'd expect them to fix the problem quietly along with suppressing the studies. But if there's no cartel, and there really are toxic emanations from a mattress, whoever identified the problem and fixed it would own the baby mattress business at least for a while.


IN addition, of course, if the portion highlighted in the original post is correct, then there should be a significant, even shocking, difference in crib deaths depending on how new the mattress is.

 

[Ixion]

The idea that there is some kind of baby-mattress cabal that is concealing toxigenic mattresses and suppressing studies is pretty far out. What would be in it for the industry? After all, it's not that hard to change materials in a mattress. If there really were such a problem, and even if there were a secret baby mattress cartel, you'd expect them to fix the problem quietly along with suppressing the studies. But if there's no cartel, and there really are toxic emanations from a mattress, whoever identified the problem and fixed it would own the baby mattress business at least for a while.


IN addition, of course, if the portion highlighted in the original post is correct, then there should be a significant, even shocking, difference in crib deaths depending on how new the mattress is.

Yep, this is how I felt. Of course, it is nice to have some data to back up my gut feelings.

 

[George 152]

If you read all the literature you'll be to scared to breathe.

Enjoy the sleepless nights, the nappies and the midnight refreshment breaks


That mattress claim came from a Jim Sprott.
If such a thing actually happened it would be broadcast by every midwife, Maternity hospital and all associated with newborns..

There is an article in Scientific American a long way back about something called brown fat.

 

[lionking]

Congrats on the baby again (where are my grandkids ). SIDS must be the worst way to lose a child, given the uncertainty of a cause. It's fantastic that you are using critical thinking to sort the wheat from the chaff.

 

[sadhatter]

As an avid product recall fan ( I find the fact that certain deadly products make it past testing interesting as hell. ) i can say i have seen cribs and mattresses recalled for many different reasons, but never for toxic fumes.

Which is to say that his point about " they wouldn't recall them because its big money" is shot down. Children's products are one of the biggest product types to be recalled. If there was this huge conspiracy to keep stuff like this quiet i wouldn't have

http://www.recalls.ws/

To keep me amused. If your looking for possible safety hazards for your kid , give it a check out. You would be surprised at some of the crap they allow on the shelves ( though to their credit these things are usually taken off the market very quickly. Leaving me with one less type of thing to collect. )

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

... ( though to their credit these things are usually taken off the market very quickly. Leaving me with one less type of thing to collect. )

[sidetrack] I kicked myself for telling the thrift store lady to take the dangerous lawn darts off the shelf instead of buying them. I later saw them listed on EBay for over $100 US. [/sidetrack]


I approached safety from the standpoint of a paranoid nurse when my son was growing up. You look at ease of implementing the safety, vs the degree of risk. So seat belts, smoke alarms and the basic poisons and water safety are no brainers. What are harder decisions are when to let your kid ride his/her bike to the park without you and whether or not to buy him/her that skateboard.