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Copyright Law

Ocelot

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Copyright protection has mushroomed over the last three centuries. The duration of copyright is now ludicrous.

In Britain the Copyright Act of 1842 introduced the idea of post mortem copyright protection; it established a copyright period of 42 years from the date of first publication or 7 years after the author's death, whichever was the longer.

This was the law when Virginia Woolf was born in 1882 but by the time she published her first novel, "the Voyage Out" in 1915, the Copyright Act of 1911 had extended the period to 50 years after an author's death. This added not only 8 years to the duration of copyright but the remainder of the authors lifetime. No matter how old the author lived she would be guaranteed to receive income from her work for the rest of her life. Not only that but she would have an enduring bequest.

Unlike some other enduring copyrights Woolf’s copyright did not benefit from her own longevity. She committed suicide in 1941 before she reach the age of 60. And so she set the copyright clock ticking a little earlier than might otherwise have been the case.

Had the law not been changed in 1911 her copyright would have expired in 1957 however as it was the copyright expired in 1991.
However the European Union Directive on Term of Copyright (adopted by the UK on 1 January 1996) further extended the standard period to 70 years after the author’s death. Thus in 2007 works by authors who died in 1937 or any year thereafter remain "in copyright".

We have the ridiculous situation that 1992 you could have legally downloaded "The Voyage Out" from the internet but to do the same today would be illegal.

Copyright has become a tradable investment with large publishing houses buying up huge portfolios of copyrights. It is the interests of these investors that are being placed before the interests of the next generation of artists and musicians. An important part of the tradable value of such cash investments is how long is left to run on the copyright.
Who does it serve that the compositions of Strauss (born 1864) Ravanello (born 1871) or Rachmaninov (born 1873) should still be "in copyright" Only the copyright holders benefit.

Woolf had ample chance to profit from her own creativity and even if copyright were only valid for 42 year after publication of "The Voyage Out" in 1915, royalties from her work would have befitted her beneficiaries for 16 years after her death. Strauss, Ravanello and Rachmaninov never made half as much money from their own work as is extracted by their current copyright holders. However today's culture is stifled by copyright holders refusing to relinquish their grip on what should be our shared heritage.

Surely by now modern musicians should be unhindered in producing derivative works based on the heritage of these great classical composers.

Had Shakespeare suffered under today's copyright law he would never have dramatised Arthur Brooke's poem "the Tragical History of Romeus and Juliet" which wouldn't have been out of copyright until 1633, 17 years after the death of the great bard.
There is a better balance to be had between the rights of a creator to benefit from their creativity and the rights of those who come after to build upon it.

A person with a technological creation may patent their work for just 20 years. The products of their creativity are their own for that time which affords them ample opportunity to profit from their work and thus reward their creativity. After that time others may build upon their work unhindered. This means that James Dyson's vacuum cleaner creation propelled him to billionaire status within his own lifetime but now that his patent has expired, other manufacturers such as Hoover are unhindered in their attempts to use his creativity and build upon it to hopefully produce improvements. Everybody benefits.

Why should a the rights over a cartoon mouse be afforded greater protection than a life saving drug?

Governments see the financial benefits of releasing patents for further development and innovation. Stifling development would see the nation being left standing by technological advances elsewhere in the world. It would be economic suicide.
With copyright it is the financial interests of the holders who prevail. The advantages of releasing the protection of such material are more cultural than economic. These pale into insignificance compared to the economic interests of the large copyright portfolio holders. It seem that the ideals of the free market apply only to goods. Nobody anywhere in the world should be allowed to produce a tangible thing that we should not be allowed to buy at a fair price determined by the market. However when it comes to ideas and less tangible creations, protectionism of an outlandish nature is allowed to dominate the market.

Before another 20 years are up the copyright holders will be lobbying for further legislative changes to further protect their investments.

It is time to reverse this trend. Sign the petition to reform copyright so that works are protected for a more than adequate 50 years from the date of publication rather than the current 70 years from the date of the author's death.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/copyright50/
 
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Your post is impossible to read. The giant 'jolly' font coupled with the lousy formatting (please add a blank line between paragraphs) makes me think "whatever it is you want isn't worth getting eye strain for".
 
Your post is impossible to read. The giant 'jolly' font coupled with the lousy formatting (please add a blank line between paragraphs) makes me think "whatever it is you want isn't worth getting eye strain for".

I agree.
 
Your post is impossible to read. The giant 'jolly' font coupled with the lousy formatting (please add a blank line between paragraphs) makes me think "whatever it is you want isn't worth getting eye strain for".

Appologies. Now reformatted for easier reading
 
Why should a the rights over a cartoon mouse be afforded greater protection than a life saving drug?
Because allowing a monopoly over a life saving drug for a prolonged period of time has more detrimental impact on society than allowing a monolopy over a cartoon mouse for a prolonged period of time.

Governments see the financial benefits of releasing patents for further development and innovation
True. Tangible things, like vacuums, can be further refined and improved upon for the benefit of all. Look at the progression of almost any kind of innovative technology to see this in action. Allowing others to build on the work of innovators in the past is beneficial.

The same is not true for creative endeavours. In fact, I would go so far as to say that original creativity is to be favoured and protected well ahead of derivative creativity. I would much rather have current artists (whether they are songwriters, painters, writers, filmmakers or what have you) creating their own original works rather than attaching onto a previously successful enterprise (Mickey Mouse films) to ape and cash a quick buck.

For example, look at movie sequels. One may debate the worth of a movie like Weekend at Bernie's, but certainly we can agree that there was no need for Weekend at Bernie's 2. I think we all would have benefitted if those responsible for that abomination had instead directed their energies to a more original project.

People already complain that popular culture is already too homogenized. Someone comes up with a good idea (a complex serialized drama like Lost) and suddenly everyone is out to make one. It would only be worse if people could actually use those same characters, instead of at least trying to make their offering a little different.
 
Not only that but she would have an enduring bequest.

Is there something wrong with that? If I built a house or a business, I should be able to pass that on to my progeny, right? Or should they become public domain as well?

We have the ridiculous situation that 1992 you could have legally downloaded "The Voyage Out" from the internet but to do the same today would be illegal.
Any time you adjust a law you get situations like this. So what? I do not see this as particularly outrageous. Once upon a time, you could buy cocaine and heroin from the pharmacy, now you can't. C'est la vie.

Copyright has become a tradable investment with large publishing houses buying up huge portfolios of copyrights. It is the interests of these investors that are being placed before the interests of the next generation of artists and musicians.
How? By making them pay royalties if they want to use someone else's work or come up with their own? What "interest" is being violated here?

An important part of the tradable value of such cash investments is how long is left to run on the copyright.
Who does it serve that the compositions of Strauss (born 1864) Ravanello (born 1871) or Rachmaninov (born 1873) should still be "in copyright" Only the copyright holders benefit.
Why is that wrong?

Woolf had ample chance to profit from her own creativity and even if copyright were only valid for 42 year after publication of "The Voyage Out" in 1915, royalties from her work would have befitted her beneficiaries for 16 years after her death. Strauss, Ravanello and Rachmaninov never made half as much money from their own work as is extracted by their current copyright holders. However today's culture is stifled by copyright holders refusing to relinquish their grip on what should be our shared heritage.
Bulls[rule 8]t. Inexpensive recordings are available and public performances happen all the time. It is not in the copyright holder's interest to withold these works from the public via onerous fees, and they do not do so.

The only thing the copyright stops is other people making money the same way by appropriating another's effort, or deriving a product or service from someone for free against their will- in otherwords, stealing.

Surely by now modern musicians should be unhindered in producing derivative works based on the heritage of these great classical composers.
They aren't particularly hindered. But they have to be creative enough to not just plagerise. This is a good thing for culture.

Had Shakespeare suffered under today's copyright law he would never have dramatised Arthur Brooke's poem "the Tragical History of Romeus and Juliet" which wouldn't have been out of copyright until 1633, 17 years after the death of the great bard.
Not true. He could have asked permission, he could have paid royalties, and if the two were sufficiently different there would be no issue.

Almost ALL works are derivative in some way. Look at "Cars"- it is essentially "Doc Hollywood" as far as the plot goes- but there is no copyright issue.

There is a better balance to be had between the rights of a creator to benefit from their creativity and the rights of those who come after to build upon it.
Which is what- taking their work away for them?

A person with a technological creation may patent their work for just 20 years. The products of their creativity are their own for that time which affords them ample opportunity to profit from their work and thus reward their creativity.
What determines "ample time"? Why shouldn't "ample time" be "as long as I or my children, or whoever I elect to transfer the rights to choose?"

After that time others may build upon their work unhindered. This means that James Dyson's vacuum cleaner creation propelled him to billionaire status within his own lifetime but now that his patent has expired, other manufacturers such as Hoover are unhindered in their attempts to use his creativity and build upon it to hopefully produce improvements. Everybody benefits.
There is a big difference between this and purely creative efforts, and you know it.

Why should a the rights over a cartoon mouse be afforded greater protection than a life saving drug?
Why indeed. :oldroll:
 
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People already complain that popular culture is already too homogenized. Someone comes up with a good idea (a complex serialized drama like Lost) and suddenly everyone is out to make one. It would only be worse if people could actually use those same characters, instead of at least trying to make their offering a little different.

Very, very true.

Ocelot- you're not a fanficcer by any chance, are you? :)
 
Because allowing a monopoly over a life saving drug for a prolonged period of time has more detrimental impact on society than allowing a monolopy over a cartoon mouse for a prolonged period of time.
But by the same token, reducing the profit incentives to those who would research and develop a life-saving drug (by only enforcing a short patent) is more detrimental to society than reducing the profit incentives to create a cartoon mouse character. I don't think your argument holds water.
 
But by the same token, reducing the profit incentives to those who would research and develop a life-saving drug (by only enforcing a short patent) is more detrimental to society than reducing the profit incentives to create a cartoon mouse character. I don't think your argument holds water.

His does, and so does yours. A balance must be struck, and so far we've settled on 20 years.

In the case of the Mouse, however, that is pure luxury and so there is no overriding need for the product to stand against the creator's wishes.
 
Very, very true.

Ocelot- you're not a fanficcer by any chance, are you? :)

Lost is not complex - it only appears so because of information that is made unavailable. In that situation, I would be automatically be killing anyone new to the area until I was myself killed or the perpetrators came out and admitted what was going on. I do not choose games. (That's also my response to "don't hate the playa', hate the game"
- no, kill the playas', end the game.)

ETA: Complexity can be figured out/calculated. Lack of information can't. Mysteries that play fair have real but sneaky clues - ones that don't are not really mysteries. Part of the reason Sherlock Holmes stories are frequently not mysteries that are fair is they were pre-rule. They are fun, but frequently use unreal setups that make Holmes look smart when actually they were not useable in the real world - but since the Holmes canon was pre-mystery as literary form rules it isn't a problem. Lost is well past them.
 
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But by the same token, reducing the profit incentives to those who would research and develop a life-saving drug (by only enforcing a short patent) is more detrimental to society than reducing the profit incentives to create a cartoon mouse character. I don't think your argument holds water.
The length of patent protection is a delicate trade off between providing that profit motive to innovate and making the resulting innovation available more freely. It has been decided that 20 years provides enough protection to preserve that profit motive while at the same time making the innovation available within a reasonable time frame. If you want to debate whether 20 years is the right number, I'm sure there are varying opinions on it. But the length of time of copyright protection should not be a factor in that debate.

Also, remember that one doesn't have to patent anything. I could come up with a cure for cancer and, if I don't think that anyone else is clever enough to reverse engineer it or figure it out, I can ride my cure monopoly forever (or until someone proves they are clever enough). The formula for Coke has never been patented, and has never been duplicated.
 
Lost is not complex - it only appears so because of information that is made unavailable. In that situation, I would be automatically killing anyone new to the area until I was myself killed or the perpetrators came out and admitted what was going on. I do not choose games. (That's also my response to "don't hate the playa', hate the game"
- no, kill the playas', end the game.)

Okaaay. :)

ETA: I think this would get you on the list as a "bad person". :)
 
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Lost is not complex - it only appears so because of information that is made unavailable. In that situation, I would be automatically killing anyone new to the area until I was myself killed or the perpetrators came out and admitted what was going on. I do not choose games. (That's also my response to "don't hate the playa', hate the game"
- no, kill the playas', end the game.)
Or, in the case of Lost, simply talking to your fellow survivors would go a long way.
 
The length of patent protection is a delicate trade off between providing that profit motive to innovate and making the resulting innovation available more freely. It has been decided that 20 years provides enough protection to preserve that profit motive while at the same time making the innovation available within a reasonable time frame. If you want to debate whether 20 years is the right number, I'm sure there are varying opinions on it. But the length of time of copyright protection should not be a factor in that debate.
But why not? The relative attractiveness under legislated copyright/patent protection would affect the behaviour of society wouldn't it? If there was no copyright for drugs and 100 years for music then perhaps you'd get more budding musicians than pharmacologists and biotechnologists.

And you advanced an argument for one relative to the other in post 4 anyway, so I don't see why you now say copyright and patent should not be factors in the same debate. ;)
 
But why not? The relative attractiveness under legislated copyright/patent protection would affect the behaviour of society wouldn't it? If there was no copyright for drugs and 100 years for music then perhaps you'd get more budding musicians than pharmacologists and biotechnologists.
I would suggest to you that the decision to become a pharmacologist or a musician has little, if anything, to do with the relative length of intellectual property protection that the fruits of one's labour would enjoy.

Instead, it would come down to whether one wants to spend their days creating drugs or spend their days using drugs.

And you advanced an argument for one relative to the other in post 4 anyway, so I don't see why you now say copyright and patent should not be factors in the same debate. ;)
Don't you mean post 5? :p

In any event, my previous posts are pointing out the differences between copyright and patents and why they should be treated differently.
 
ETA: Complexity can be figured out/calculated. Lack of information can't. Mysteries that play fair have real but sneaky clues - ones that don't are not really mysteries. Part of the reason Sherlock Holmes stories are frequently not mysteries that are fair is they were pre-rule. They are fun, but frequently use unreal setups that make Holmes look smart when actually they were not useable in the real world - but since the Holmes canon was pre-mystery as literary form rules it isn't a problem. Lost is well past them.

Why can't it be complex and be thusfar incomplete? Granted if we got to the end and there is no way we could solve it with the clues given, your criticism would be apt, but we havent seen it all yet.

You wouldn't call it unfair if you read only 2/3rds of a "modern" mystery and couldn't figure it out, would you?
 
Also, remember that one doesn't have to patent anything. I could come up with a cure for cancer and, if I don't think that anyone else is clever enough to reverse engineer it or figure it out, I can ride my cure monopoly forever (or until someone proves they are clever enough). The formula for Coke has never been patented, and has never been duplicated.
I think that the FDA might want to know what's in your treatment before approving it.
 
Why can't it be complex and be thusfar incomplete? Granted if we got to the end and there is no way we could solve it with the clues given, your criticism would be apt, but we havent seen it all yet.

You wouldn't call it unfair if you read only 2/3rds of a "modern" mystery and couldn't figure it out, would you?

From the limited times I saw parts of it , I truly do not think its' writers are actually smart enough to pull it out. From interviews recently it looks like some cast members and fans who have kept up with it agree with me - I just realized the liklihood early in the first season.
 
It is time to reverse this trend. Sign the petition to reform copyright so that works are protected for a more than adequate 50 years from the date of publication rather than the current 70 years from the date of the author's death.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/copyright50/

As an artist, I see no reason why the protection afforded my work through copyright laws can't extend for 70 years past my death. It could help my children and grandchildren financially and keep at bay those 'businessmen' without a creative bone in their body from looting work that sprang from my imagination.
 
Copyrights, trademarks, and patents are very different things under US law.

Copyright: intellectual property protection for a creative work in a fixed medium (written down, recorded, painted, etc.). A copyright holder has a legal action against another if they can show the second work was substantially based on the first. A defense to this is that the second artist coincidentally created a very similar work. IIRC, a copyright lasts for the life of the author plus 75 years. In the case of an institutional creator (Disney, Marvel, etc.) I think its a flat 85 years. This may have been changed by recent legisllation. The goal of copyright to allow authors to benefit from their work, but not let that work be strictly controlled into infinity. I think Sonny Bono may have pushed through legislation to extend the period of copyright.

trademark: intellectual property protection for a symbol, unique name, logo, or even color scheme. Infringment is generally found where the two entities are involved in the same type of industry. The landmark case is Slickcraft v. Sleekcraft. The test was seven parts and dealt with similarity of brands, industry, markets, and liklihood of consumer confusion. Can last indefinitely.

Patent: an intellectual property protection for a invention or process that is new, useful, and non-obvious. Lasts 10 years. The US employs a first to create right; most other countries use first to file. The "new" requirement means that a person cannot patent a naturally occuring substance or event like oxygen or meteor showers. Patent violations can occur even if the second creator invents the same process by accident (this differs from copyright above). The goal of patents is to reward innovations, but not forclose its benefits to society at large.

Ocelot said:
Why should a the rights over a cartoon mouse be afforded greater protection than a life saving drug?

For the exact reason I mentioned. We want people to invent new useful things. At the same time, we don't want the creator to have a permanent stranglehold over a benefitial (potentially life saving) tech. A patent holder gets absolute dominon over the patent even against accidental infringement, but only for 10 years. Since the patent office holds the information, everyone knows where to find it when the 10 years is up.
 

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