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Continuing to do things you know you shouldn't

Dr. Imago

Master Poster
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Okay, there are certainly things we all do that we know we shouldn't. I advocate, for example, almost daily (yes, even as anesthesiologist) to patients about exercising, maintaining an ideal body weight, not smoking, etc. However, I will admit that I'm a bit hypocritical in that regard.

My vice? I enjoy cigars. There, I said it. :) I cannot, in good conscience, condone this behavior in myself or my patients. In fact, I'm a bit hypocritical I suppose when I tell people not to smoke. Yet, I do enjoy smoking a cigar on occassion and enjoy it with a nice glass of single malt to boot. I can't claim that I'm not aware of the risk that this adds to my life, but the enjoyment of it seems in my mind to outweigh the risks.

I know the whole "doctor heal thyself" mantra. And, I recognize that I probably shouldn't engage in this behavior. Yet, I still do it anyway.

So, what are your vices that you know you shouldn't do, but do anyway? And, if possible, explain why you engage in them. Likewise, do you feel it is okay if you are fully aware of the risks? Discuss.

-Dr. Imago
 
I'm not going to get into the details of my many vices, but as for the rationale:

You only live once.
Everybody dies eventually.
Risks can be managed.
There is pleasure to be gained.
I'm not dead yet.
 
Reading this damn board when I should be clearing up the mess my flat's in.
 
Eating way too much greasy, yet tasty food. Fat = flavour, much to my chagrin.
 
bokonon said:
I'm not going to get into the details of my many vices, but as for the rationale:

You only live once.
Everybody dies eventually.
Risks can be managed.
There is pleasure to be gained.
I'm not dead yet.
Click to expand...

Well, this is certainly the civil libertarian view: I am fully employed, the behavior does not directly hurt anyone else, I'm fully aware of the consequences, and I don't expect nor would I accept anyone else paying for the results of my unhealthy habits - so is it "wrong" to do it?

-Dr. Imago
 
Dr. Imago said:
Well, this is certainly the civil libertarian view: I am fully employed, the behavior does not directly hurt anyone else, I'm fully aware of the consequences, and I don't expect nor would I accept anyone else paying for the results of my unhealthy habits - so is it "wrong" to do it?

-Dr. Imago
Click to expand...

It's only "wrong" if you tell other people not to do it, which you have already admitted to doing (frequently:)).

I can't think of anything I do which could reasonably be considered a vice (I really am that boring).
 
Most of the things I shouldn't be doing are not appropriate for the science subforum.
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
It's only "wrong" if you tell other people not to do it, which you have already admitted to doing (frequently:)).
Click to expand...
It is not wrong to encourage others not to do it, especially if one is a doctor, and therefore has a responsability in keeping his patients healthy, or at least as healthy as they are willing.

I accept most of the "civil liberatarian" approach mentioned before, but I also suspect that personal vices could play a negative role to the rest of society in ways you might not be aware of.

And, if you have children, I would advise being particularly cautious about what sorts of activities your children are encouraged to do and to avoid.


As for me: No major vices. I don't drink alcohol, I don't smoke, I don't even gamble. Though, I have been known to play a violent computer game, every now and then.
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
It's only "wrong" if you tell other people not to do it, which you have already admitted to doing (frequently:)).
Click to expand...

Well, that's the ageless "do as I say, not as I do" part of human nature that most parents would begrudgingly admit to. The point is, we probably all do things we know we shouldn't. Doesn't make it "right" if someone else does them too.

-Dr. Imago
 
bokonon said:
I'm not going to get into the details of my many vices, but as for the rationale:

...
Risks can be managed.
There is pleasure to be gained.
....
Click to expand...
And there is where to find the rational basis for risk taking decisions.

My approach, assess the risk-benefit/difficulty-ease of quitting-starting the thing which is good for you or bad for you.

Too often people just make these decisions without any real risk assessment. Take your cigars, Dr Im, do you not take risks continually every day? You drive or ride in a vehicle I would assume. Do you consciously assess the risk of driving? Maybe. Seatbelts are easy, everyone should wear seatbelts. Buying the safest car on the market is not easy for someone who can't afford it. And for someone who can, perhaps that mid-life crisis Ferrari is worth the risk of a less safe vehicle.

A healthy diet, difficult for me. The benefit would be high but implementation is difficult. Smoke alarms and seatbelts, a no brainer. Exercise, I got a couple dogs. They make it hard not to take that daily walk.

My point is, make the assessment, make the decision then stop stressing over it. Isn't stress still considered a risk factor for cardiac health? I see no reason to single out any particular risk over another without the actual assessment. You might consider the cigars as unnecessary and of little benefit. It sounds like you are considering the benefit but faulting yourself for the decision. Yet do you fault yourself for the decision to own a less safe vehicle? Many people don't give vehicle safety a conscious consideration yet the risk of dying in a vehicle crash at least for some age groups, is higher than the risk from cigar smoking (not sure when that risk reverses but the second hand smoke even for those who don't inhale must be doing some damage).

And what about the necessity factor? We usually need to drive places. But does that mean you never get in a vehicle to go somewhere for pleasure? Do you consider that a vice because it means you are taking an unnecessary risk?

Take the 'vice' out of its special category. What is the actual risk? What is the benefit? How hard is it to implement the safer choice? You all have no excuse for not having a working smoke alarm and wearing seatbelts. From there the decisions are based individual assessments. We take many risks every day. There is no reason to evaluate those risks differently because one is considered a 'vice' or bad for us.

Of course with that said, I can't imagine why a cigar is such a benefit the decision would favor smoking them. I'd take a long hard look at substituting some other pleasure there if I were you, Dr Im. But then I am not you.
 
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Everything in moderation should never trump making the best decision you can with all available information, just as short term pleasure should never trump long term gain.

Also note, the Webster's definitions of dependence and addiction do not include positive or negative connotations, as they are situational.
 
Dr. Imago said:
Well, that's the ageless "do as I say, not as I do" part of human nature that most parents would begrudgingly admit to. The point is, we probably all do things we know we shouldn't. Doesn't make it "right" if someone else does them too.

-Dr. Imago
Click to expand...

How would you feel about a politician campaigning against prostitution and then admitting to occasionally using escort agencies?

I think parents have a slightly better excuse, since children often don't have the sophistication to judge when behaviour they have seen their parents engaging in is appropriate.

I think when someone is not at least trying to follow their own advice, it damages their credibility in general.
 
Actually, you've just failed one of the admission tests of Lord Peter Whimsy's gourmands' club; that is, being offered a cigar and a glass of single-malt whiskey at the end of the meal. One gentleman was elected by universal acclaim upon refusing and noting that all he really cared for in that line was a glass of beer and a cigarette.

Your health is your lookout, but please try not to waste good cigars and good whiskey by combining them. :P

JK, of course. De gustibus non disputandum.
 
I occasionally run with scissors, and a few times I've left the house wearing underwear with holes.

Linda
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
How would you feel about a politician campaigning against prostitution and then admitting to occasionally using escort agencies?
Click to expand...

Well, bit of a straw man to introduce into the subject illegal activity... nonetheless, I find most politicians rail to the public against things they themselves are guilty of. Take Al Gore, for instance... doesn't set much of a good example taking private jets all over the place getting paid big bucks to talk about decreasing individual carbon debt and whatnot.

Seriously, if a patient told me he smoked a cigar once or twice a month with a glass of single malt, I'd say probably not a good idea but that I do it myself. This is far different than smoking a pack of cigarettes (or more) a day and failing to wear a seatbelt in the car, both subjects I am true to my word in both preaching against as well as practicing.

And, no, I don't have children, I don't do this at home (mostly the local cigar bar), and no one feels the detriment of this behavior except myself and those who choose to be in the near vicinity during a session.

-Dr. Imago
 
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